You know the real issue regarding last nights game

is not the incompetence of the french police, or the attempted mutiny by the french. no. the real issue is the negative tactics which were again in evidence away from home in europe.

why is it beyond the realms of possibility for fergie to allow the team to attack the opposition, just as we did with spurs at whl? is he really trying to say that we're not good enough to go and try to beat a team like lille on their own patch, and that the best we can hope for is a 0-0, or a undeserved 0-1 as we got?

as for starting larsson ahead of saha. madness. absolute madness. last night was the sort of game that saha should have started. it would have given him much needed match fitness and there is always the chance that his pace could have unlocked their defence. hell, he might have even got a goal! instead, he's left on the bench, cast aside for a 35 year old on-loan striker with 2 goals for us and who is heading back to his own club in 3 weeks.

please don't confuse this post as an anti-larsson rant. it aint. i think he is a quality player, but would have been best used as a sub last night. instead he started ahead of a striker who lacks confidence and who will be vitally important to us at the 'business end' of the season.

Crap pitch and negative opposition in the 1st half didn't help.

Originally Posted by Jack Duckworth

is not the incompetence of the french police, or the attempted mutiny by the french. no. the real issue is the negative tactics which were again in evidence away from home in europe.

why is it beyond the realms of possibility for fergie to allow the team to attack the opposition, just as we did with spurs at whl? is he really trying to say that we're not good enough to go and try to beat a team like lille on their own patch, and that the best we can hope for is a 0-0, or a undeserved 0-1 as we got?

as for starting larsson ahead of saha. madness. absolute madness. last night was the sort of game that saha should have started. it would have given him much needed match fitness and there is always the chance that his pace could have unlocked their defence. hell, he might have even got a goal! instead, he's left on the bench, cast aside for a 35 year old on-loan striker with 2 goals for us and who is heading back to his own club in 3 weeks.

please don't confuse this post as an anti-larsson rant. it aint. i think he is a quality player, but would have been best used as a sub last night. instead he started ahead of a striker who lacks confidence and who will be vitally important to us at the 'business end' of the season.

Agree with all of that, for all the talk of formations it is the attitude that is the most worrying thing about our away performances. Not just in Europe, we are cautious in the big domestic away matches as well these days, we will likely play for a draw at Anfield.

As for Larsson/Saha, been banging on about it all week, we drop a key player who was crucial to our form at the start of the season for a 35 yo short term signing. Not exactly a confidence boost for Saha is it?

As well as Larsson has done we we have not looked as Fluid or dangerous with him as opposed to Saha. Even at Spurs we did not play that well, took our chances but our play was not brilliant.

I've said it time and time again, we will not get away with our league approach in Europe. Lille are a better organised unit than Spurs (for example) and are good enough to restrict chances and mark our best players out of the game. The likes of Spurs aren't. The same goes for your Benficas, Portos, et al.

You want a gung ho 4-4-2 approach (even though we don't even use that system in the league anymore) fine but I certainly won't expect us to control a game and outscore the other team. Not with the current playing staff anyway - no wingers hugging the touchlines, no combative midfielder, a defence which is capable of making even the most rudimentary mistakes etc and apart from 1 or 2 players in the starting XI no real pace either.

I'm not even go to start on the technical abilities of 'our' players. Sweet jesus...

Still we had enough chances to bag 2 or 3 last night - playing a type of 442 - yet our attackers finishing abilities left a lot to be desired. As did their decision making throughout the match.

The intent in the league is a completely different issue for me.

You could also see why Ferguson was desperate to get Hargreaves. Against teams with good technical players who can pass the ball and are athletic Scholes and Carrick can be exposed. Scholes especially is defensive liability these days, his tackling is worse than ever:and his lack of mobility is a problem against the top sides.

Originally Posted by Whalefish

I've said it time and time again, we will not get away with our league approach in Europe. Lille are a better organised unit than Spurs (for example) and are good enough to restrict chances and mark our best players out of the game. The likes of Spurs aren't. The same goes for your Benficas, Portos, et al.

You want a gung ho 4-4-2 approach (even though we don't even use that system in the league anymore) fine but I certainly won't expect us to control a game and outscore the other team. Not with the current playing staff anyway - no wingers hugging the touchlines, no combative midfielder, a defence which is capable of making even the most rudimentary mistakes etc and apart from 1 or 2 players in the starting XI no real pace either.

I'm not even go to start on the technical abilities of 'our' players. Sweet jesus...

Still we had enough chances to bag 2 or 3 last night - playing a type of 442 - yet our attackers finishing abilities left a lot to be desired. As did their decision making throughout the match.

The intent in the league is a completely different issue for me.

agree with all of that, except the bit about technical ability. lille are, simply, a damn hard side to play against. good result and a decent performance.

Originally Posted by Tiberian

You could also see why Ferguson was desperate to get Hargreaves. Against teams with good technical players who can pass the ball and are athletic Scholes and Carrick can be exposed. Scholes especially is defensive liability these days, his tackling is worse than ever:and his lack of mobility is a problem against the top sides.

Hello!

Originally Posted by borsuk

agree with all of that, except the bit about technical ability. lille are, simply, a damn hard side to play against. good result and a decent performance.

Yup, in the first half they basically played a flat back 8 which was very difficult to break down on a disgrace of a pitch.

I dont think you can name a technically more gifted footballer than Scholes. Rooney, Ronaldo, Larsson, Carrick and even Rio are all excellent 'technically' too, so thats a load of old sheeeeeeeee-ite Whalers.

You did make some good points though. Well done.

Originally Posted by Barca '91

I dont think you can name a technically more gifted footballer than Scholes. Rooney, Ronaldo, Larsson, Carrick and even Rio are all excellent 'technically' too, so thats a load of old sheeeeeeeee-ite Whalers.

You did make some good points though. Well done.

Rooney's first touch constantly gets found out in Europe, one of the reason he has struggles so badly in the CL, where his physical power can not be used to the same extent.

If that's the case Barca I'd like them to be able to work on their first touch, their passing skills and their control some more. Because it wasn't up to much last night, and has been pretty iffy in Europe all season. Lille didn't seem to have too much difficulty when it came to the basics on that surface.

I'm rather worried about our form full stop. We've lapsed into our form last season, poor or complacent movement, no fluidity, everyones on mildly different wavelengths.

Reading, now Lille, and we struggled a bit before that too. Portsmouth wasn't very good nor Arsenal. Thems the signs of a bad patch of form creeping up, hopefully we realise that and nip it in the bud asap before it does any damage to our ambitions.

Watching Kaka last night really brought home how immature our team can be, especially Rooney who plays a similar position. The way he brought players into the game, and the movement of others to allow him passes was really great.

That kind of passer within a team who move well can really cut open any defence. Similar to Arsenal.

That said we won and neither Milan or Arsenal did well. Champions League is very hard to win now.

p.s. I think we did try to attack as usual last night, but we were effectively prevented for large parts of the game. We were getting the upper hand until they switched to 4-2-3-1 which completely flummoxed us.

scholes was piss poor last night. he's a luxury we cannot afford imo. nft.

Rooney's touch at times is an issue I grant you that. And whilst it £#%&!ing annoys me when people name the pitch as an excuse as the opposition have to play on the same one, but last night I think that was a real issue with the players passing Especially in the middle of the park.

When we started knocking short balls quickly in and around the final third we looked much better....although this didnt happen nearly often enough I concede.

If you are telling me you dont think the players I mentioned are technically gifted footballers then I think you need to consult your day release officer and cease voicing opinions on football until you have come to your senses.

Originally Posted by El Calafate

scholes was piss poor last night. he's a luxury we cannot afford imo. nft.

I dont know why you are actually alive.

No over-reaction to an average but wining performance on a shit pitch here I see.

Thinking about it the last time we played really well away from home in Europe may have been the Deportiva La Coruna match when we won 2-0 at their place. Could easily have been 3/4, we were brilliant on the counter, and i think we played a version of 4-5-1 that night, Giggs had one of his best ever matches for Utd, supporting RVN.

Sadly that was 3/4 years ago.

Perhaps I should have said some of our players Barca and I was referring to Europe since this is what the thread's about, you chose to list them not me. But technically, last night, they were poor and in Europe this season I don't think I've been impressed with any of them.

Evra was probably our best player last night.

Originally Posted by antonin jablonsky

No over-reaction to an average but wining performance on a shit pitch here I see.

Originally Posted by antonin jablonsky

No over-reaction to an average but wining performance on a shit pitch here I see.

Not at all I was happy with the result. After all I was expecting a defeat. I'm just not that happy with the performances in Europe.