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Unread 21-02-2017, 09:31 AM
Mr_Ed
 
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2 goals in a win at Anfield. It got Forlan a song!
 
Unread 21-02-2017, 09:33 AM
Baron
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jem
that's simplistic. he subs mata irrespective of how he and others are playing.
It's not simplistic, Mourinho is all about the small details. Such as subbing Mata when he himself came on as a sub, he mentioned he was the smallest player on the pitch - he needed him before for a period of the game where a technical, goal scoring creator was required - he didn't need him for the last 4mins when balls are launched into the box.

Mata has a lot of qualities, but he's pointless for anything defensive or if a game was stretched & you needed someone to carry the ball with pace.

I think he's a cracking player, who's shown a lot of quality, but his physical limitations are obvious. Same as Lingard, Rashford, Zlatan... you're slow, small, weak etc - unless you're Pogba, in which case you're never going to lose out.
 
Unread 21-02-2017, 09:33 AM
Billy Redface
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S/Side.Red
I think his issue with Mata at Chelsea was that he had Oscar and Hazard and he felt that the best balance for those two was a more industrious player like Willian. He knew he'd have to work extremely hard to get Hazard tracking back etc so Mata was a luxury.

I don't think Mata is underrated. He's never going to be an undisputed starter. He came close to that last year due to lack of options, but now I think he'll always take those spells out the side. Especially in big away games, as he did this season.

Remains to be seen whether he's a long-termer under Mourinho. Any Griezmann arrival would appear damaging.
Exactly. Different club. Different options. Different requirements. Why people are determined to retain something he did 3 years ago (while all the time saying he had no issue with him personally) rather than the context of here and now what's happening in front of them is baffling.

Seems the 'first out the door' crew feel a bit daft and will jump on any chance. Look he just subbed him! Yes, he also started him despite having a wealth of other options too
 
Unread 21-02-2017, 09:35 AM
jem
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Ed
2 goals in a win at Anfield. It got Forlan a song!
mata mata mata mata mata mata....... scher-wing!



anyway, we almost all love the beautiful little dawdle arse lightweight. wouldn't be in my first xi, but still..... wouldn't sell him for actual money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron
It's not simplistic, Mourinho is all about the small details. Such as subbing Mata when he himself came on as a sub, he mentioned he was the smallest player on the pitch - he needed him before for a period of the game where a technical, goal scoring creator was required - he didn't need him for the last 4mins when balls are launched into the box.

Mata has a lot of qualities, but he's pointless for anything defensive or if a game was stretched & you needed someone to carry the ball with pace.

I think he's a cracking player, who's shown a lot of quality, but his physical limitations are obvious. Same as Lingard, Rashford, Zlatan... you're slow, small, weak etc - unless you're Pogba, in which case you're never going to lose out.
that's very reasonable. it just doesn't apply to most of the times he's subbed mata on 60/70 mins.
 
Unread 21-02-2017, 09:39 AM
sa7
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S/Side.Red
I think his issue with Mata at Chelsea was that he had Hazard and he felt that the best balance was more industrious attacking players like Willian and Oscar. He knew he'd have to work extremely hard to get Hazard tracking back etc so Mata was a luxury.
I read that, at the time, Oscar was Abramovic's golden boy so getting rid of him was never an option so Mata was the one who had to be let go.
 
Unread 21-02-2017, 09:39 AM
S/Side.Red
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Redface
Exactly. Different club. Different options. Different requirements. Why people are determined to retain something he did 3 years ago (while all the time saying he had no issue with him personally) rather than the context of here and now what's happening in front of them is baffling.

Seems the 'first out the door' crew feel a bit daft and will jump on any chance. Look he just subbed him! Yes, he also started him despite having a wealth of other options too
Also, things just change. He may even have arrived thinking he'd bin Mata again. But maybe he's seen an improvement, be it in attitude or tactical awareness perhaps. Mata also knew he'd have to step it up and fight to impress Mou; it was easier to leave Chelsea for United than to leave United for Everton, which is the club he was linked to last summer.
 
Unread 21-02-2017, 09:40 AM
Baron
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jem
that's very reasonable. it just doesn't apply to most of the times he's subbed mata on 60/70 mins.
But, that's just like.... your opinion man......
 
Unread 21-02-2017, 09:52 AM
Billy Redface
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S/Side.Red
Also, things just change. He may even have arrived thinking he'd bin Mata again. But maybe he's seen an improvement, be it in attitude or tactical awareness perhaps. Mata also knew he'd have to step it up and fight to impress Mou; it was easier to leave Chelsea for United than to leave United for Everton, which is the club he was linked to last summer.
Yep. We have a whole new situation and circumstance to judge their relationship and the stats show only three players who start more games and he's selected regularly in a position where there are numerous other options.
 
Unread 21-02-2017, 09:53 AM
S/Side.Red
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa7
I read that, at the time, Oscar was Abramovic's golden boy so getting rid of him was never an option so Mata was the one who had to be let go.
Oscar is (or was) also quite a hard-working and tactical player. So he balanced Hazard better than Mata would.

It's why you won't often in a big game - or even tricky away games like Everton, West Ham - see Mata and Martial start. Usually it'll be one or the other. Mourinho will always, in England, have that degree of caution when it comes to carrying defensively suspect players.
 
Unread 21-02-2017, 09:58 AM
Tumescent Throb
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S/Side.Red
Also, things just change. He may even have arrived thinking he'd bin Mata again. But maybe he's seen an improvement, be it in attitude or tactical awareness perhaps. Mata also knew he'd have to step it up and fight to impress Mou; it was easier to leave Chelsea for United than to leave United for Everton, which is the club he was linked to last summer.
well yeah we can make up all the scenarios we like i suppose...

what mourinho has actually said is probably a better place to start though, and what he's actually said is that manchester united play differently to chelsea, more technically and creatively, more focus on trying to win with style rather than just getting results, making mata a perfect fit for us moreso than for chelsea...

it's an interesting point you make about greizman taking his place, but isn't that just moving the goalposts to make the same argument? greizman and mata seems a decent prospect together to me. throw in mhiki and pogba and if jose could get the balance right off the other side as well we could be peaking in some kind of cruyffian footballing nirvana sometime not long from now
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