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Unread 22-03-2020, 11:23 PM
92ToBury
 
Default Talking point: Did Ryan Giggs under-achieve?

Sounds ludicrous on the face of it; I appreciate he provided balance to Kanchelskis, then Beckham then Ronaldo down the left. I am not trying to undermine the service he has given to us. But this is the point; do you ever think he saw the output of Ronaldo and felt like he hadn't scored enough?

His first full season he scored 7 goals in 51 games. Two years later we won the double and in 58 games he scored 17 goals. At the time I thought, great, because we had Cantona and Hughes up front; neither were prolific but you felt that the three of them would get 50-60 between them. Unfortunately it wasn't to be the case. Ryan would never score 15 goals in a season for us again, breaking double figures on only three more occasions.

Yes, there's that goal in April 99, the one against Juventus, etc but for sheer goal output, given the talent and pace, is it unreasonable to say that he could have been a lot better? While Ronaldo will go down as one of the greatest of all time, Ryan won't. He'll quite rightly be acknowledged as a great player and club legend, but arguably should have been more. He could take an excellent free kick, he could beat a man with his eyes shut and he's "one of us" but looking at Ronaldo's output, shouldn't Ryan have been scoring 20 goals a season at least a few times in his career?

Looking forward to a sensible discussion but fearing the worst.
 
Unread 22-03-2020, 11:28 PM
Ethers
 
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Well yes, if you’re going to base your entire argument on goals, he probably could have scored a few more. I’m not really sure that’s worthy of a debate, it’s more like stating the obvious.

Of course, there was far more to his game than just goals, so judging him on that is absolutely ludicrous
 
Unread 22-03-2020, 11:33 PM
Switching Off
 
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Yeah, same as Scholes, who I recently learned only won player of the month twice. Must be gutted.
 
Unread 22-03-2020, 11:35 PM
ZiggyStardust
 
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During his time wide players were about being creators rather than goal scorers
Now it’s the opposite

Look at other top wide players of his generation like Figo, they didn’t have great goal scoring records either
 
Unread 22-03-2020, 11:38 PM
92ToBury
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZiggyStardust
During his time wide players were about being creators rather than goal scorers
Now it’s the opposite

Look at other top wide players of his generation like Figo, they didn’t have great goal scoring records either
Compared to Beckham, Giggs doesn't have a decent assist record either. Maybe he wasn't the same after his first hamstring tear and we expected too much?
 
Unread 22-03-2020, 11:41 PM
Ethers
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 92ToBury
Compared to Beckham, Giggs doesn't have a decent assist record either. Maybe he wasn't the same after his first hamstring tear and we expected too much?
He holds the Premier League All-Time Assists record by miles
 
Unread 22-03-2020, 11:41 PM
tatty
 
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He was absolutely dynamite those first 2 or 3 seasons, especially the 92/93 season I think where he scored some belters.

He was still fantastic after that but perhaps never quite hit the heights I thought he would.

Feels a bit churlish to be saying it though.
 
Unread 22-03-2020, 11:42 PM
dunk
 
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He was £#%&!ing brilliant tbh.
 
Unread 22-03-2020, 11:45 PM
92ToBury
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethers
He holds the Premier League All-Time Assists record by miles
Holds the appearance record by miles too. No coincidence. He was part of the best midfield I've ever seen. Always sad that Zidane was the best midfielder I'd ever seen but I wouldn't sign him while we had that four.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tatty
He was absolutely dynamite those first 2 or 3 seasons, especially the 92/93 season I think where he scored some belters.

He was still fantastic after that but perhaps never quite hit the heights I thought he would.

Feels a bit churlish to be saying it though.
Pretty much my basis for the thread. Worse than an international break this shutdown.
 
Unread 22-03-2020, 11:46 PM
Sparky***
 
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I think if the last couple of years have taught us anything it's that if anything the likes of Giggs and Scholes are under-rated.

Giggs got every last drop out of his career and talent, he is the benchmark for longevity and professionalism, nobody in english football comes close.
 
Unread 22-03-2020, 11:48 PM
jem
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 92ToBury
While Ronaldo will go down as one of the greatest of all time, Ryan won't.


giggs running with the ball is arguably the most beautiful sight in the beautiful game.
 
Unread 22-03-2020, 11:49 PM
Buck
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZiggyStardust
During his time wide players were about being creators rather than goal scorers
Now it’s the opposite

Look at other top wide players of his generation like Figo, they didn’t have great goal scoring records either
This.

Figo and Nedved won Balon d'ors with 15 goal seasons.

The Messi/Ronaldo duopoly just forced every up and coming wide player to up their goal ratio. That and poorer quality of defending/keepers.

Even then I think Hazard only had one 20 goal season for Chelsea but he was arguably the best player in the league for a few years. A player like Sterling who has hit the 20 mark more has never even been the best player in his team.
 
Unread 22-03-2020, 11:50 PM
Ethers
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jem


giggs running with the ball is arguably the most beautiful sight in the beautiful game.
This.
 
Unread 22-03-2020, 11:55 PM
armchair
 
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Unread 22-03-2020, 11:56 PM
92ToBury
 
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His top ten. Enjoy:

The goals against Spurs and QPR probably set expectations too high at the start.
 
Unread 22-03-2020, 11:57 PM
Zorg
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky***
I think if the last couple of years have taught us anything it's that if anything the likes of Giggs and Scholes are under-rated.

Giggs got every last drop out of his career and talent, he is the benchmark for longevity and professionalism, nobody in english football comes close.
Yes but how many ‘duels’ did he win eh?
 
Unread 22-03-2020, 11:59 PM
92ToBury
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorg
Yes but how many ‘duels’ did he win eh?
Not as many as he lost. Log off Statto.
 
Unread 23-03-2020, 12:17 AM
Chris Quayd
 
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Ryan Giggs, a bloke who won everything there is to win across a 20 year career for England’s greatest club, one of the most feared players during the peak of the Champions League years and a mainstay during the most dominant era of domestic club football “won’t go down as a great player” - do you have Covid-19?
 
Unread 23-03-2020, 12:34 AM
92ToBury
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Quayd
Ryan Giggs, a bloke who won everything there is to win across a 20 year career for England’s greatest club, one of the most feared players during the peak of the Champions League years and a mainstay during the most dominant era of domestic club football “won’t go down as a great player” - do you have Covid-19?
Quote:
He'll quite rightly be acknowledged as a great player
You've had a mare.
 
Unread 23-03-2020, 12:41 AM
Arnold Muhren
 
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Stats wise he’s the greatest we’ve ever had and will likely ever have. Could he have scored more goals ala Ronnie? I guess so, but Ronnie will go down as one of the top 10 to ever play the game so it’s an unfair comparison really.
Giggs is a United legend though, forever and always.
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