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Unread 07-10-2022, 11:36 AM
shenwen
 
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Agree with ethers

It’s just as silly to say “Russia would never…”

Never underestimate a small man with his back to the wall
 
Unread 07-10-2022, 11:38 AM
armchair
 
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Seems a huge stretch to me. As it stands, I think us special forces did it.

What beggars belief is that Putin thought he could invade and hold Ukraine. It seems so deluded. It was always going to be a quagmire and resistance warfare is pretty easy given enough money, training and weapons. Imagine something more stupid and difficult than invading Afghanistan.

It'll be the humiliation of Putin that makes nukes more likely but he's done it to himself.

 
Unread 07-10-2022, 11:59 AM
TripDownMiseryLane
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armchair View Post
Seems a huge stretch to me. As it stands, I think us special forces did it.

What beggars belief is that Putin thought he could invade and hold Ukraine. It seems so deluded. It was always going to be a quagmire and resistance warfare is pretty easy given enough money, training and weapons. Imagine something more stupid and difficult than invading Afghanistan.

It'll be the humiliation of Putin that makes nukes more likely but he's done it to himself.

https://youtu.be/oIFLtNYI3Ls
Nuts, as if the UKRs weren't going to fight to the last, and as you say with backing and support. I think because he got away with the Crimea so easily he thought that this would be another walk in the park and the world would turn a blind eye. The Russian intelligence services must be shite as all this stuff seems so predictable.
 
Unread 07-10-2022, 12:00 PM
red red robbo
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armchair View Post
Seems a huge stretch to me. As it stands, I think us special forces did it.

What beggars belief is that Putin thought he could invade and hold Ukraine. It seems so deluded. It was always going to be a quagmire and resistance warfare is pretty easy given enough money, training and weapons. Imagine something more stupid and difficult than invading Afghanistan.

It'll be the humiliation of Putin that makes nukes more likely but he's done it to himself.

https://youtu.be/oIFLtNYI3Ls
I think his plan was a dash to Kyiv, remove the current government and replace with a puppet then "negotiate" the annexation of the eastern regions with the new regime.
 
Unread 07-10-2022, 12:04 PM
tatty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red red robbo View Post
I think his plan was a dash to Kyiv, remove the current government and replace with a puppet then "negotiate" the annexation of the eastern regions with the new regime.
As unfortunate for Ukraine (and as unpalatable for the rest of us) as this would have been, the world would be in a much better place right now if he'd been successful.

It comes down to pragmatism against idealism...we'd all like to be in the latter camp but sometimes you've got to pick your battles. And everyone has screwed up here.
 
Unread 07-10-2022, 12:12 PM
TripDownMiseryLane
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red red robbo View Post
I think his plan was a dash to Kyiv, remove the current government and replace with a puppet then "negotiate" the annexation of the eastern regions with the new regime.
Petty sure you're right on the nail, they want the direct connections to Crimea as well. Did nobody tell him that this would turn out to be a very messy war, an unwinnable one? sure they did and that goes to show what a nut he is.
 
Unread 07-10-2022, 12:15 PM
jem
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tatty View Post
As unfortunate for Ukraine (and as unpalatable for the rest of us) as this would have been, the world would be in a much better place right now if he'd been successful.

It comes down to pragmatism against idealism...we'd all like to be in the latter camp but sometimes you've got to pick your battles. And everyone has screwed up here.
for me it comes down to not merely being reactive. he does what he thinks he can get away with. don't f***ing ignore him til he does mad shit.
 
Unread 07-10-2022, 12:17 PM
TripDownMiseryLane
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tatty View Post
As unfortunate for Ukraine (and as unpalatable for the rest of us) as this would have been, the world would be in a much better place right now if he'd been successful.

It comes down to pragmatism against idealism...we'd all like to be in the latter camp but sometimes you've got to pick your battles. And everyone has screwed up here.
It was never going to be any other way, as if the UKRs were going to accept another invasion and annexation. It not about idealism as far as they are concerned, it's having your country destroyed.
 
Unread 07-10-2022, 12:24 PM
Patty_b
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tatty View Post
As unfortunate for Ukraine (and as unpalatable for the rest of us) as this would have been, the world would be in a much better place right now if he'd been successful.

It comes down to pragmatism against idealism...we'd all like to be in the latter camp but sometimes you've got to pick your battles. And everyone has screwed up here.
Yeah, because I'm sure that Putin would have left it there if they invaded Ukraine with absolutely no resistance from the rest of the world
 
Unread 07-10-2022, 02:52 PM
red red robbo
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jem
for me it comes down to not merely being reactive. he does what he thinks he can get away with. don't f***ing ignore him til he does mad shit.
As uncomfortable as I'm sure it is for us both, jem and I singing from the same song sheet here. He should have been properly punished for his invasion of Crimea, then he might have thought twice about doing it again.
 
Unread 07-10-2022, 03:00 PM
92ToBury
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethers View Post
Kind of sick of hearing “Russia aren’t going to….” tbh, because quite often it turns out completely incorrect. Russia aren’t going to send KGB agents to the U.K. to kill someone they’ve got beef with. Russia aren’t going to shoot down a commercial airliner. Russia aren’t going to invade Ukraine….

I’m keeping an open mind on what happened, but there’s definitely reasons Russia would have wanted to do it. To solidify domestic support for "partial mobilization" by claiming to be under attack. To try and drive a wedge between NATO allies. To further weaponise the cutting of energy supplies to Europe this winter while maintaining plausible deniability.

It’s very silly to make any judgements yet based on the limited evidence we have .
They've already said it.
7th Feb, Biden said “If Russia invades…then there will be no longer a Nord Stream 2. We will bring an end to it.”
 
Unread 07-10-2022, 03:27 PM
Ethers
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 92ToBury View Post
They've already said it.
7th Feb, Biden said “If Russia invades…then there will be no longer a Nord Stream 2. We will bring an end to it.”
Okay, so you’re basing it off one quote back in February? You’ll need a bit more than that I think.

There wasn’t even a start to Nordstream 2 btw
 
Unread 07-10-2022, 09:57 PM
avocado
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tatty View Post
As unfortunate for Ukraine (and as unpalatable for the rest of us) as this would have been, the world would be in a much better place right now if he'd been successful.

It comes down to pragmatism against idealism...we'd all like to be in the latter camp but sometimes you've got to pick your battles. And everyone has screwed up here.
And where does pragmatism end? Urkraine? Poland? Hungary? UK not a million miles away.
 
Unread 07-10-2022, 10:01 PM
Sparky***
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avocado View Post
And where does pragmatism end? Urkraine? Poland? Hungary? UK not a million miles away.
exactly, we've seen this song played out through history multiple times. They don't tend to stop with 1.
 
Unread 08-10-2022, 12:03 AM
92ToBury
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethers View Post
Okay, so you’re basing it off one quote back in February? You’ll need a bit more than that I think.

There wasn’t even a start to Nordstream 2 btw
Need a bit more than a quote that issues a direct threat to its existence you mean? What, like a good conspiracy theory or something?

Haven't a clue what your second statement is trying to say, but it started construction in 2011.
 
Unread 08-10-2022, 12:40 AM
rubbernecker
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikvanHaaksbergen View Post
The Sirius Report

The only thing more beta than being a natural-born Russian getting your ass handed to you by a country on your very own border w/ a GDP smaller than Scotland's who you had an unopposed, 12 month pre-emptive plan to conquer and still f***ed it up is being part of the UK/US's bastardised right-wing fringe yearning with every ounce of your being for the success of a corrupt, flabby, 5 ft 5 70 year old man and all he represents. Kudos to you - you made it
Gibberish worthy of some 15yo from 4chan

Majority of that post concerned the harikiri by the eurolemmings commanded at US behest but you ignored that surprise surprise

Will revisit this thread during the coming winter of industry closures,unemployment and plummeting standards of livings

Jesus-imbeciles on this thread arguing that Russia blew up its own leverage and potential revenue stream when they could have simply turned off the tap

Looking forward to the same imbeciles proclaiming it's a price worth paying as people lose their jobs and houses whilst US banks ,weapons manufacturers and energy companies make massive profits

 
Unread 08-10-2022, 01:23 AM
ErikvanHaaksbergen
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rubbernecker View Post
Gibberish worthy of some 15yo from 4chan

Majority of that post concerned the harikiri by the eurolemmings commanded at US behest but you ignored that surprise surprise

Will revisit this thread during the coming winter of industry closures,unemployment and plummeting standards of livings

Jesus-imbeciles on this thread arguing that Russia blew up its own leverage and potential revenue stream when they could have simply turned off the tap

Looking forward to the same imbeciles proclaiming it's a price worth paying as people lose their jobs and houses whilst US banks ,weapons manufacturers and energy companies make massive profits

Keep re-visiting it and keep seeing your arse as your idols are embarrassed at every turn by a 2nd-world nation on the battlefield you silly fringe d***head.

Save yourself the anxiety - I've absolutely no doubt in my mind your living standards already mirror the lofty populaces of Belgorod & Khimki. By heavily subsidised "eurolemming" standard, you really don't have much further to fall.
 
Unread 08-10-2022, 01:44 AM
tatty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avocado View Post
And where does pragmatism end? Urkraine? Poland? Hungary? UK not a million miles away.
The world would be a much safer place if the pragmatism still ended at the IGB.

We may have moved on and invited ex-WP countries to join NATO, but for me the red line is the old membership. It does seem i'm in the minority though in not willing to risk nuclear war for Albania or North Macedonia.

However, I do wonder whether the warmongers will be quite so strident when the first tactical nuclear weapon is used. The collective arses of Western leaders will go, and they'll be doing everything possible to stop it escalating...including throwing Ukraine under the bus.
 
Unread 08-10-2022, 01:48 AM
ErikvanHaaksbergen
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tatty View Post
However, I do wonder whether the warmongers will be quite so strident when the first tactical nuclear weapon is used. The collective arses of Western leaders will go, and they'll be doing everything possible to stop it escalating...including throwing Ukraine under the bus.
Keep parroting this line and in the meantime Ukraine will keep thrashing your boys on the eastern front. "Putin is destroying the West" FFS

The moment a nuclear-variety weapon is used, the US stop playing nice and erase your boys who can't hold their ground against a second-world nation from the face of the earth.
 
Unread 08-10-2022, 01:54 AM
tatty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikvanHaaksbergen View Post
Keep parroting this line and in the meantime Ukraine will keep thrashing your boys on the eastern front. "Putin is destroying the West" FFS

The moment a nuclear-variety weapon is used, the US stop playing nice and erase your boys who can't hold their ground against a second-world nation from the face of the earth.
'Nuclear-variety weapon'.

Sounds like something you could chuckle at.
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