Joey Barton

Originally Posted by Patty_b

The women I'm related to by blood or marriage have been raped, sexually assaulted, stalked, abused verbally, abused emotionally, abused physically and abused financially.

Originally Posted by Patty_b

Better preface this with saying there's certainly an overreach in terms of trans issues, and too much importance on pronouns (both left and right). Personally I'm in the 'couldn't give a shit' camp. My nieces were into their pronouns last year and my view was 'that's lovely, but don't expect me to remember, or care if I get it wrong'. The overreach will correct itself in time, but there's going to be lots of things that society gets wrong before it gets mostly everything right and unfortunately there's going to be individuals that fall victim to that.

This isn't aimed specifically at Zorg, but what does irk me a bit is when people discussing trans issue bring up womens rights as the stick to beat the trans issue over the head with. There's a lot of women in my family, 2 sisters, 3 step-sisters, 2 sisters by marriage, my mother and a step-mum etc etc...

The women I'm related to by blood or marriage have been raped, sexually assaulted, stalked, abused verbally, abused emotionally, abused physically and abused financially. All of these acts were carried out by straight men. From all the women in my family, not one has had any issue with a trans women. They know trans women, they interact with trans women, but not one has had any sort of issue with trans women. No assaults, no abuse, no times they feel as though their rights have been infringed upon when it relates to the trans debate.

There are real issues with womens rights, but the majority of them are as a result of actions by men in general. My wife doesn't earn less than a less qualified man in the same role because of trans women. My sisters rapist wasn't let off because of a trans women. My other sister wasn't stalked for weeks on end because of a trans woman.

It would be easier to take concerns about womens rights in the trans debate more seriously if the same people expressing those concerns put as much energy into calling out the No.1 reason womens rights are infringed upon, which is men in general. But the only time I really see men have a keen interest in womens rights and want to take some sort of stand is when the trans debate is brought up. Any other time it is labelled as hysterical, woke, virtue signalling, white knighting, positive discrimination box ticking.

There's so much anger and backlash against a small cases of awful injustices that relate to the trans debate, but for the most part a blind eye to systemic injustices against women on an industrial scale when it can't be blamed on anything to do with trans.

Not to mention, there's a lot of people that like to use womens rights as one of their reasons in opposition in the trans debate that are at the same time championing back into the most powerful office in the world a man that led his political party to carry out one of the biggest setbacks of womens rights in a developed country in modern history. And most are doing it just for the memes. That's another one that's difficult to make any real sense out of.

And I don't expect this to go down too well in a forum mainly populated by straight men

I agree with the thrust of all that. Obvs you can fight for women’s rights, be sympathetic towards trans and be horrified by the number of sexual assaults carried out by men.

But I think your point is similar to mine - trans woke wars consume a massively disproportionate amount of time and effort given that the trans population in the uk is estimated at something like 0.5%

There are loads of valid points - men in women’s sports, men around women that have been sexually assaulted - all the examples zorg has pointed towards - but it’s weaponised to a massive extent by the right who like you say, don’t give a flying £#%&! about any of it - just use it as an easy attack on anyone reasonable and empathic as woke.

It’s depressing stuff.

If having women commentate on the men’s game promotes gender equality and women’s football then who cares? I’d rather listen to my dead grandma who knew nothing about the men’s game than Jermaine Jenas.

Originally Posted by Hyman_Roth

I agree with the thrust of all that. Obvs you can fight for women’s rights, be sympathetic towards trans and be horrified by the number of sexual assaults carried out by men.

But I think your point is similar to mine - trans woke wars consume a massively disproportionate amount of time and effort given that the trans population in the uk is estimated at something like 0.5%

There are loads of valid points - men in women’s sports, men around women that have been sexually assaulted - all the examples zorg has pointed towards - but it’s weaponised to a massive extent by the right who like you say, don’t give a flying £#%&! about any of it - just use it as an easy attack on anyone reasonable and empathic as woke.

It’s depressing stuff.

If having women commentate on the men’s game promotes gender equality and women’s football then who cares? I’d rather listen to my dead grandma who knew nothing about the men’s game than Jermaine Jenas.

Yes, pretty much. There's so much energy and outrage poured into the trans debate around womens rights, which would be more beneficial to women if that same energy and outrage was invested into the injustices and abuse they widely experience on a daily basis, which is overwhelmingly perpetrated by men, whether straight or trans, or everything in-between.

People like Joey Barton think the world is going to shit because someone talking about a game of football is a woman, or god forbid, a gay woman. How anybody, even an uber@#%&! like Joey Barton, has the energy to be that invested on such a non-issue like that is as you say, depressing.

Literally the only problem I have with women's football is that it's absolutely shoved down your neck by the BBC.




But there's a pretty easy solution, just avoid the BBC. I have BBC football as my homepage because I'm too lazy to change it, and they're absolutely desperate for women's football to be seen as 'equal' to men's, giving some absolute shite stories precedent. I actually think that is more damaging and actually pretty patronising to the womens game - "look! look! it's nearly the same as mens! read this!"


It's not the same game and shouldn't be thought of as the same game. For all the strides made forward in terms of getting more girls playing the game, that kind of attitude hinders it massively. They should get off their arses and create a dedicate women's football page, it's effectively a totally seperate sport with it's own issues.

Originally Posted by Whip Hubley

Literally the only problem I have with women's football is that it's absolutely shoved down your neck by the BBC.

Same with the weather. The BBC is always shoving the weather down my throat. And cooking. And snooker.

Nothing worse than a national broadcaster showing things I'm not interested in and forcing me to watch.

Originally Posted by suedeshoes

Same with the weather. The BBC is always shoving the weather down my throat. And cooking. And snooker.

Nothing worse than a national broadcaster showing things I'm not interested in and forcing me to watch.

The BBC is an national treasure

Originally Posted by silv

The BBC is an national treasure

It’s original aim was to educate and entertain

Keep watching Silv, you might learn the correct use of “an”

Originally Posted by no fun

It’s original aim was to educate and entertain

Keep watching Silv, you might learn the correct use of “an”

'an'al bastard

Originally Posted by Whip Hubley

Literally the only problem I have with women's football is that it's absolutely shoved down your neck by the BBC.




But there's a pretty easy solution, just avoid the BBC. I have BBC football as my homepage because I'm too lazy to change it, and they're absolutely desperate for women's football to be seen as 'equal' to men's, giving some absolute shite stories precedent. I actually think that is more damaging and actually pretty patronising to the womens game - "look! look! it's nearly the same as mens! read this!"


It's not the same game and shouldn't be thought of as the same game. For all the strides made forward in terms of getting more girls playing the game, that kind of attitude hinders it massively. They should get off their arses and create a dedicate women's football page, it's effectively a totally seperate sport with it's own issues.

The team's menstruation cycle will eventually align. Imagine managing that!

Originally Posted by suedeshoes

Same with the weather. The BBC is always shoving the weather down my throat. And cooking. And snooker.

Nothing worse than a national broadcaster showing things I'm not interested in and forcing me to watch.

I watched a few minutes of FIFA esports the other day, and one of the teams had Messi, Mbappe and some woman, and the female character was as good as the men.

Originally Posted by Whip Hubley

.

But there's a pretty easy solution, just avoid the BBC. .

This. Does the BBC (or whoever) having women on a football show really aggravate the likes of Barton? Probably not, but even if it does, it's much easier to ignore than it is to get all red in the face about it. If I have an alternative to Jermaine Jenas or even Neville commentating, then I'll take it. Life's too short to spend 90 minutes listening to either of them.

I'm not sure how this has transitioned into the trans thread though. Has Barton said something?

https://youtu.be/I745Ajeq_B8?si=qp26lShqfyy0RdeG

Weird how any mention of women brings all the basement dwellers out on here?

Originally Posted by sweetleftfoot

Weird how any mention of women brings all the basement dwellers out on here?

londoners?

Originally Posted by sweetleftfoot

Weird how any mention of women brings all the basement dwellers out on here?

Surely whip isn't going to take that lying down?

Originally Posted by Sparky***

The backlash against this shit is going to be £#%&!ing biblical. And you can bet your life it will come, because the vast majority of people will not stand for this for much longer. Rest assured in decades to come there will be investigations and weedling apologies to do with all this. It will be a shameful chapter in western history.

You're right, but unfortunately that means doing stuff - something regular folk are notoriously bad at. Yeah, if it's something as simple as not buying beer, not voting for someone or unsubscribing to Disney people will do it, but actually protesting? This is why a tiny lunatic sliver of society have such an overpowering voice and why the vast majority are so £#%&!ing scared.

Shame on us.

Originally Posted by Patty_b

No I don't, from personal experience in my family, it's been straight men.

The fact that straight men outnumber trans by about a hundred million to one might make it slightly more likely they'll have been abused by them tbf.

Originally Posted by Sheik JaBooty

The fact that straight men outnumber trans by about a hundred million to one might make it slightly more likely they'll have been abused by them tbf.

I don’t understand why people think that anyone who doesn’t like women commentating on football matches is because they’re women and I think therein lies the problem.

Like any aspect of it is just profession for those involved just like any of us in our daily lives. If you were told there were to be redundancies at work and one job was available for two of you. You were highly qualified at the job and had years of valuable experience and the other was someone (man/woman/cat etc) who had no experience whatsoever or any qualifications to warrant the job but they gave them the job to fill some random woke quota then I’m sure any of us would be pissed and I’m sure that’s why there’s some uniting resentment among professional retired footballers.

As for the woman thing then again me and I’m pretty certain whip and everyone else couldn’t care less that it’s a woman. If pure rocked up on match and of the day because he managed a pub team in a Sunday league we’d all take the piss and say this idiots not got a clue. It’s just the same with the women.

Originally Posted by Patty_b

Possibly. Not sure how though...

The women I'm related to by blood or marriage have been raped, sexually assaulted, stalked, abused verbally, abused emotionally, abused physically and abused financially. All of these acts were carried out by straight men. From all the women in my family, not one has had any issue with a trans women. They know trans women, they interact with trans women, but not one has had any sort of issue with trans women. No assaults, no abuse, no times they feel as though their rights have been infringed upon when it relates to the trans debate.

While I'm sure they know trans 'women' they probably come across slightly more straight men.

Oh and by "overreach", do you mean hounding poor professors to the point of suicide for the crime of airing an opinion, that kind of "overreach"?