Whisper it...

Originally Posted by Patty_b

This is another thing you hear a lot, but his record tends to contradict that. Pretty sure we have recovered the most points from losing positions since he became the manager. How can that be the case if he lacks in-game management skills? Maybe it's a case that he only gets hammered when it doesn't work out, and then doesn't get the credit when it does?

As I said elsewhere, I'm not sure that's a positive or negative for the manager. Imo, there were a lot of times when the quality of players pulled us through, rather than the tactic or in-game management. Not sure. But there is plenty of evidence to the contrary where bad decisions have cost us games (and trophies).

Originally Posted by Stickman

Wasn’t that the very same year you and your cronies went to Carrington with a bedsheet?

Self awareness on this

Ali out

Originally Posted by Hyman_Roth

Bizarre argument Barry. What I’ve seen is a manager who finished a very credible 2nd last season but who also limped out of a winnable champs league group, messed up in both domestic cups and then messed up the europa final against £#%&!ing bobbins opposition.

The europa final is the final 10% I’m talking about - beating a demoralised Newcastle side and a ridiculously set up Leeds side isn’t (at home having just secured the re-turn of the greatest footballer of all time).

I don’t want him sacked - I’m just not altogether convinced by him.

Nope, that wasn't an achievement pal

Originally Posted by Whip Hubley

Why? Everyone said 2nd would be a reasonable and decent result. He got it. Nobody really expected the start of last season for us to win the league barring a city meltdown.

Now it's not an achievement

A reasonable and decent result is now seen as achievements?

A ‘very credible second’ is also now seen as a great achievement too…



Enjoy you days lads.

Originally Posted by Hyman_Roth

Bizarre argument Barry. What I’ve seen is a manager who finished a very credible 2nd last season but who also limped out of a winnable champs league group, messed up in both domestic cups and then messed up the europa final against £#%&!ing bobbins opposition.

The europa final is the final 10% I’m talking about - beating a demoralised Newcastle side and a ridiculously set up Leeds side isn’t (at home having just secured the re-turn of the greatest footballer of all time).

I don’t want him sacked - I’m just not altogether convinced by him.

Where I am at. I want him to do well, and sometimes he looks like he is doing well and there go on a stinking run or completely balls up a crucial one-off game. I don't know what that extra 10% is, but if we get it we'd be competing for trophies (and not the Europa loser's cup)

Originally Posted by Hyman_Roth

Tbeating a demoralised Newcastle side and a ridiculously set up Leeds side isn’t (at home having just secured the re-turn of the greatest footballer of all time)..

Originally Posted by shenwen

As I said elsewhere, I'm not sure that's a positive or negative for the manager. Imo, there were a lot of times when the quality of players pulled us through, rather than the tactic or in-game management. Not sure. But there is plenty of evidence to the contrary where bad decisions have cost us games (and trophies).

Absolute state.

So when we win by a good scoreline it's because the other team are a bit sad, or just shit.

And we turn games around it's just because of the players.

It's odd that under other 'elite' managers we've had that struggled in the league at times that we didn't score 4+ more often against these sad and bad teams, or that we couldn't turn around games we were struggling in.

Originally Posted by shenwen

Where I am at. I want him to do well, and sometimes he looks like he is doing well and there go on a stinking run or completely balls up a crucial one-off game. I don't know what that extra 10% is, but if we get it we'd be competing for trophies (and not the Europa loser's cup)

Where I am and many sensible heads too tbf

£#%&! all wrong with questioning Ole and also £#%&! all wrong with saying finishing in the top four in a three team league last season is an improvement on the season before and something to build on but in no way should be seen as a great achievement.

Originally Posted by AK14

A reasonable and decent result is now seen as achievements?

A ‘very credible second’ is also now seen as a great achievement too…



Enjoy you days lads.

Where did I say great achievement? You seem very defensive and rattled pal, "enjoy your day".... thought we were just having a fairly reasonable discussion about the manager

If it's semantics fine but you were inferring that it was a nothing achievement finishing 2nd. I disagree.

Originally Posted by AK14

Where I am and many sensible heads too tbf

£#%&! all wrong with questioning Ole and also £#%&! all wrong with saying finishing in the top four in a three team league last season is an improvement on the season before and something to build on but in no way should be seen as a great achievement.

Who said it was a great achievement?

Originally Posted by Whip Hubley

Where did I say great achievement? You seem very defensive and rattled pal, "enjoy your day".... thought we were just having a fairly reasonable discussion about the manager

If it's semantics fine but you were inferring that it was a nothing achievement finishing 2nd. I disagree.

Rattled…

Usually brought up by someone that is in fact… rattled

Enjoy watching our 20/21 review DVD and that magical season we finished second in a three team league pal.

Originally Posted by AK14

Was it really the toughest league in the world?

According to the majority of experts I've ever listened to and read, yes. It's also by far the most valuable, hence why so many smaller clubs have built such decent first 11s.

Originally Posted by shenwen

I honestly thought Barry had consumed a few tipples last night with his talk of Matt Busby. Was waiting for him to bring up Ernest Magnall

I was talking about the traditions of the greatest football club on the planet, not making direct comparisons of their management style or ability. Our two greatest managers were given years to win a league title, and neither were perfect (I remember Fergie made a number of baffling selections and substitutions over the years). If either had been in charge in 2021/22, the reactions would no doubt have been the same towards them: win, win, win, don't mistakes, or else we want someone who is currently better than you. I just don't get this attitude from grown men and people who clearly love the club as much as I do.

Originally Posted by Patty_b

Absolute state.

So when we win by a good scoreline it's because the other team are a bit sad, or just shit.

And we turn games around it's just because of the players.

It's odd that under other 'elite' managers we've had that struggled in the league at times that we didn't score 4+ more often against these sad and bad teams, or that we couldn't turn around games we were struggling in.

Stop trying to find a fight you weirdo. The point is about winning something meaningful with one of the best and most expensive squads ever assembled. Beating Leeds and Newcastle at home doesn’t define ole as a successful manager. Those kind of wins arent now and have never been particularly meaningful. It’s not dismissing it, it’s just not giving stuff like that undeserved status.

We all hope he wins something this year - it’s just that matches like last night erode confidence that he can or will.

Originally Posted by AK14

Rattled…

Usually brought up by someone that is in fact… rattled

Enjoy watching our 20/21 review DVD and that magical season we finished second in a three team league pal.

So you've gone from me saying it can be classed as an achievement to imagining that i'm somehow sitting down with the season DVD with glee. Interesting.

Originally Posted by AK14

But saying us getting second as though it’s some sort of achievement because it was ‘the toughest league in the world’ is ridiculous.

Over the course of a season, it demonstrated that Ole had a better managerial record than Klopp and finished above the team that won the Champions League. He also did the double of the PL winners. How is that not indicative of the fact that not only does Ole know what he's doing, but is actually a very good manager?

Originally Posted by BarryX

According to the majority of experts I've ever listened to and read, yes. It's also by far the most valuable, hence why so many smaller clubs have built such decent first 11s..

Experts such as Paul Merson, Geoff Stelling, Rio Ferdinand, Micha Richards, Graham Souness etc?

The same experts that are paid by the tv companies to say it’s ‘the toughest league in the world’.

Liverpool finished fourth playing with a midfielder and some bloke called Nat Phillips at centre back and losing what felt like half their games

Originally Posted by BarryX

Over the course of a season, it demonstrated that Ole had a better managerial record than Klopp and finished above the team that won the Champions League. He also did the double of the PL winners. How is that not indicative of the fact that not only does Ole know what he's doing, but is actually a very good manager?

I didn’t say he wasn’t

Originally Posted by Hyman_Roth

Bizarre argument Barry.

How is it bizarre? You wrote 'nothing I’ve seen so far has eroded the doubts that grew during last season'. Yet since the end of the last season we've had one of our greatest transfer windows on record, are top of the league after four games and I logically pointed out that we have smashed a couple of teams along the way.

Appreciate you're not one of the ones ripping him to shreds on here, but still, just think we (as collective fans) should be 100% behind the manager at this stage in the season and his tenure.

Originally Posted by Whip Hubley

So you've gone from me saying it can be classed as an achievement to imagining that i'm somehow sitting down with the season DVD with glee. Interesting.

Yep

That’s exactly what’s happened…

Originally Posted by BarryX

How is it bizarre? You wrote 'nothing I’ve seen so far has eroded the doubts that grew during last season'. Yet since the end of the last season we've had one of our greatest transfer windows on record, are top of the league after four games and I logically pointed out that we have smashed a couple of teams along the way.

Appreciate you're not one of the ones ripping him to shreds on here, but still, just think we (as collective fans) should be 100% behind the manager at this stage in the season and his tenure.

Tbf, that really only applies to the matchday support. it doesn't matter one bit what joe bloggs on a forum thinks or writes.

Thank god.

Originally Posted by Whip Hubley

Tbf, that really only applies to the matchday support. it doesn't matter one bit what joe bloggs on a forum thinks or writes.

Thank god.

Tbf that bloggs is a bit of a @#%&!

Both him and redacted can get £#%&!ed.

Originally Posted by AK14

Yep

That’s exactly what’s happened…

..

Originally Posted by Whip Hubley

I'm not even saying he's a great manager. I'm saying people are belittling any sense of achievement. Essentially because of 1 bad result last night, it seems.

Originally Posted by AK14

But saying us getting second as though it’s some sort of achievement because it was ‘the toughest league in the world’ is ridiculous.

Originally Posted by Whip Hubley

Why? Everyone said 2nd would be a reasonable and decent result. He got it. Nobody really expected the start of last season for us to win the league barring a city meltdown.

Now it's not an achievement

Originally Posted by AK14

A reasonable and decent result is now seen as achievements?

A ‘very credible second’ is also now seen as a great achievement too…



Enjoy you days lads.

Originally Posted by AK14

Where I am and many sensible heads too tbf

£#%&! all wrong with questioning Ole and also £#%&! all wrong with saying finishing in the top four in a three team league last season is an improvement on the season before and something to build on but in no way should be seen as a great achievement.

Originally Posted by Whip Hubley

Where did I say great achievement? You seem very defensive and rattled pal, "enjoy your day".... thought we were just having a fairly reasonable discussion about the manager

If it's semantics fine but you were inferring that it was a nothing achievement finishing 2nd. I disagree.



Who said it was a great achievement?

Originally Posted by AK14

Rattled…

Usually brought up by someone that is in fact… rattled

Enjoy watching our 20/21 review DVD and that magical season we finished second in a three team league pal.

Glad you agree. Apology accepted.

Originally Posted by Whip Hubley

..














Glad you agree. Apology accepted.

Originally Posted by Hyman_Roth

Stop trying to find a fight you weirdo. The point is about winning something meaningful with one of the best and most expensive squads ever assembled. Beating Leeds and Newcastle at home doesn’t define ole as a successful manager. Those kind of wins arent now and have never been particularly meaningful. It’s not dismissing it, it’s just not giving stuff like that undeserved status.

We all hope he wins something this year - it’s just that matches like last night erode confidence that he can or will.

I'm not trying to find a fight. I'm picking up on the constant process of fans underplaying anything good, just so they can carry on having a good depressing moan about everything.

We've put 5 and then 4 past teams in our first two home games of the season (something which we struggled to do with other elite managers), and you have to try and find some reason to make it sound like that's not a good thing.

Leeds were ridiuclously set up and Newcastle were "demoralised".

£#%&! off

Can't blame anyone for having a moan after last night, but at least try to enjoy the good things.