it's not often you get to see half a team of players who weren't good enough for united

Originally Posted by jem

I complain when we're winning.

I wasn't unhappy when we went down against spurs, because it was clear we could get back into it. I wasn't even despairing about the first half against sunderland (a bit sad for scholesy, maybe), because it was clear we could get back into it merely by fighting a bit harder and showing our clear superiority. equally, we were very lucky to beat arsenal.

but we really shouldn't be judging purely on results. performances matter. and getting knocked around by a big lump up front and not closing down bent... on that basis, any championship side would give us a headache (like derby and their unmarked strikers).

barcelona were there for taking in the cl final as well. they scored a goal against the run of play due to three defensive howlers and we sagged. rooney had an off day and ronaldo, after a 10-minute "look at me" session didn't do much. everyone else says we were taught a lesson, but even fletch and ando could (probably) pass the ball around prettily if no one put them under any pressure. when ferdinand and vidic can't spot little messi when he is the only player in a position to receive the ball.....

I'm sorry, I just don't believe in our midfield until hargreaves is fit. and even then we need some decent wingers. if you like valencia, you probably liked duff, robben, etc as well and thought kanchelskis was better than giggs (he was better than valencia, though).

coppell and hill..... olsen and strachan.... giggs and sharpe... giggs and beckham.... giggs and ronaldo..... er..... nani and valencia.

robson.... keane..... er.... fletcher.

I don't think it's unrealistic to expect better quality than this.

fletcher has been superb for 2 years now. easily our best midfielder at the moment. not sure why you cant see that jimmy/max?

Jem doesn't half talk some shite tbh. And generally seems to pop up and do it after United have had a bad result. Weird that

Originally Posted by John Blazini

Jem doesn't half talk some shite tbh. And generally seems to pop up and do it after United have had a bad result. Weird that

Isnt the only weird thing mate - he has a thing for cats. A dirty type of thing if you know what I mean.

Originally Posted by Part 36 Offer

oshea played well you £#%&!ing #@&%!.

£#%&! off back to brixton you £#%&!ing gobshite

o'shea stood off bent for the first goal, but otherwise did ok.

Originally Posted by Part 36 Offer

fletcher has been superb for 2 years now. easily our best midfielder at the moment. not sure why you cant see that jimmy/max?

the fact that fletch is valued is an indictment of our midfield. and he hasn't been superb. his distribution is terrible. he is a lightweight. he gets in the way a bit. when you measure him against the midfielders we have had (the likes of robson and keane), the claim that he is superb rings hollow. when carrick plays and if hargo is fit there is no place for fletch. superb, my arse. I can't fault his effort, though.

Originally Posted by John Blazini

Jem doesn't half talk some shite tbh. And generally seems to pop up and do it after United have had a bad result. Weird that

I am entirely consistent in my comments on the midfield, win or lose. I resent the suggestion that I only question when we lose. I didn't even enjoy winning the league, except the fact that liverpool thought they'd win it. that was an embarrassing way to win a title. we need to do more than win.

Originally Posted by jem

the fact that fletch is valued is an indictment of our midfield. and he hasn't been superb. his distribution is terrible. he is a lightweight. he gets in the way a bit. when you measure him against the midfielders we have had (the likes of robson and keane), the claim that he is superb rings hollow. when carrick plays and if hargo is fit there is no place for fletch. superb, my arse. I can't fault his effort, though.

that's %@#$&!s. every midfielder we've had falls short if you measure them against keane and robbo ffs.

fletcher has been the best central m/fder in the country bar essien for the last two years (gerrard having played as a support striker for the most part).

Some people can be too stubborn to change their views on a player, no matter what evidence there is to suggest they're wrong.

Fletcher is just a shaved head and a tattoo sleeve away from being the complete modern day midfielder.

Arse getting beat.

Originally Posted by borsuk

that's %@#$&!s. every midfielder we've had falls short if you measure them against keane and robbo ffs.

fletcher has been the best central m/fder in the country bar essien for the last two years (gerrard having played as a support striker for the most part).

Lampard?

we've also only had a dozen or so games to change our style and mentality after losing the best player in the world. all the players have had to re-adjust. they've said so themselves. not 100% there yet, but doing pretty £#%&!in well IMO

Originally Posted by borsuk

that's %@#$&!s. every midfielder we've had falls short if you measure them against keane and robbo ffs.

fletcher has been the best central m/fder in the country bar essien for the last two years (gerrard having played as a support striker for the most part).

keane falls short when measure against robson.

fletch has absolutely not been better than lampard, gerrard, essien or even fabregas. er... or diaby.

he falls short when measured against strachan, whiteside, scholes (the younger), giggs (the elder), hargo, carrick... if you want a comparison, try nicky butt.

Originally Posted by jem

I complain when we're winning.

I wasn't unhappy when we went down against spurs, because it was clear we could get back into it. I wasn't even despairing about the first half against sunderland (a bit sad for scholesy, maybe), because it was clear we could get back into it merely by fighting a bit harder and showing our clear superiority. equally, we were very lucky to beat arsenal.

but we really shouldn't be judging purely on results. performances matter. and getting knocked around by a big lump up front and not closing down bent... on that basis, any championship side would give us a headache (like derby and their unmarked strikers).

barcelona were there for taking in the cl final as well. they scored a goal against the run of play due to three defensive howlers and we sagged. rooney had an off day and ronaldo, after a 10-minute "look at me" session didn't do much. everyone else says we were taught a lesson, but even fletch and ando could (probably) pass the ball around prettily if no one put them under any pressure. when ferdinand and vidic can't spot little messi when he is the only player in a position to receive the ball.....

I'm sorry, I just don't believe in our midfield until hargreaves is fit. and even then we need some decent wingers. if you like valencia, you probably liked duff, robben, etc as well and thought kanchelskis was better than giggs (he was better than valencia, though).

coppell and hill..... olsen and strachan.... giggs and sharpe... giggs and beckham.... giggs and ronaldo..... er..... nani and valencia.

robson.... keane..... er.... fletcher.

I don't think it's unrealistic to expect better quality than this.

That, my friend, is £#%&!ing spot on.

I think we all agree we won the league in 2nd gear last year. I think the ones who are complaining about us being 'greedy' are the greedy ones. They want to win trophies at any cost. I want to win and entertain people. I can't be arsed to find the post, but I remember saying a couple of years ago that we play with fear. The only time we haven't done recently is when we're already
2 down at half time or 1 down with 20 to go and there's nothing to lose

Nobby Stiles, an Old Trafford apprentice at the time of the crash, recalled Busby’s crowning glory at Wembley in 1968. “He told us to go out and play and entertain. That’s how we were brought up. It’s the Manchester United way,” said Stiles.

Although I reckon Fletcher has been excellent since the start of last season. Still, I think we should be doing better than him.

I know where your coming from about the wingers Jem. United have generally always played with 2 really good attacking wingers, the problem is they don't seem to be around anymore like they used to. Where are even your Arthur Graham's or Peter Barnes these days. When a 36 year year old like Giggs can still skin full back's it just shows what a dearth there is in this type of player these days.

Originally Posted by Part 36 Offer

oshea played well you £#%&!ing #@&%!.

£#%&! off back to brixton you £#%&!ing gobshite

oshea played well, i suggest you are the most clueless @#%&! on here, the fat %@#$&! @#%&! either hoofs the ball out of touch or straight to the other team, he is an embarassment, not evn half the player wes brown is.

Originally Posted by Brother Mouzone

oshea played well, i suggest you are the most clueless @#%&! on here, the fat %@#$&! @#%&! either hoofs the ball out of touch or straight to the other team, he is an embarassment, not evn half the player wes brown is.

his cross for berbatov's goal was quite the hoof.

I would have played brown at centre back.

Originally Posted by Part 36 Offer

fletcher has been superb for 2 years now. easily our best midfielder at the moment. not sure why you cant see that jimmy/max?

Originally Posted by borsuk

that's %@#$&!s. every midfielder we've had falls short if you measure them against keane and robbo ffs.

fletcher has been the best central m/fder in the country bar essien for the last two years (gerrard having played as a support striker for the most part).

you sound like liverpool fans with your red tinted specs, fletcher has indeed played well, but as jem said he only stands out cause the rest have played so shit. If Hargo comes back then he shouldnt get a sniff of the first team.

Good player, like him but best midfielder in the country??

Utd don't win a football match and surprise surprise, fletcher and O'shea are singled out for a kicking it's like Fred Tissue revisited.

Originally Posted by redmike

Utd don't win a football match and surprise surprise, fletcher and O'shea are singled out for a kicking it's like Fred Tissue revisited.

eh? since when is that half a team?

throw in nani, scholes, vidic, foster and evans as well. um... who does that leave? rooney and evra... solid (rooney was a bit shit, though). berbatov.... underrated. oh, yeah... welbeck... still waiting for an answer on that one.

I was being generous too.

Originally Posted by jem

eh? since when is that half a team?

throw in nani, scholes, vidic, foster and evans as well. um... who does that leave? rooney and evra... solid (rooney was a bit shit, though). berbatov.... underrated. oh, yeah... welbeck... still waiting for an answer on that one.

I was being generous too.

Evans played well

Originally Posted by £#%&! KFC

Evans played well

the ex-sunderland player did not play with the same passion as the ex-united players.

he wasn't the worst, but he's no paul mcgrath.

I know that's not fair.

of the slighty revisionist stamp and is, as stated by yourself, an unfair comparison. Steve Bruce was no paul mcgraFF" but seemed to do ok, as I recall.

My plan was to start supporting the Franco outfit, but they lost today so thats out the window

I recall steve bruce being a bit of a liability. like vidic.