Manchester United vs Liverpool: Official Match Day Thread : 24/10/21 4:30pm

Originally Posted by Lazlo Panaflex

have noticed. I'm telling you signing ronaldo was a dreadful idea.

I was all for it, but I did say at the time it would be make or break for Ole.

I doubt we would have gone for him if there was another club in the bidding besides City. Letting City have a free run to sign him was not an option.

Originally Posted by Zorg

I think all this stuff about Ole saying 'go out and enjoy yourselves' and 'stick your leg out, you never know' has been basically, if not literally, true.

He appears to think the gravitas of playing for United is supposed to be enough and everything will just sort of fall into place around that.

Wind back a few weeks and I was laughing at Gary Potter or whatever he's called taking over. Not laughing now.

After Wednesday's match he was asked what he told them at ht to inspire the turnaround: "just make sure you score the next goal" came the response. Footballers aren't the brightest but I want to give them the benefit of the doubt that they might have already considered scoring the next goal.

It's not what to do that we struggle with, it's how to do it. We can't press properly, can't dominate possession, can't create chances against teams defending deep and can't stop teams cutting through us. Apart from that we're ok tbh.

Originally Posted by Chris Quayd

After Wednesday's match he was asked what he told them at ht to inspire the turnaround: "just make sure you score the next goal" came the response. Footballers aren't the brightest but I want to give them the benefit of the doubt that they might have already considered scoring the next goal.

It's not what to do that we struggle with, it's how to do it. We can't press properly, can't dominate possession, can't create chances against teams defending deep and can't stop teams cutting through us. Apart from that we're ok tbh.

Second time I've lol'd today on here

Originally Posted by Dr Stranger

My point is that you are seeing that. I don’t believe they didn’t try, but when you’re at that ‘two sets and break down’ point, then it looks like you’ve stopped. Remember too, it’s relative to who you’re playing. We’re playing one of the best teams in the world. Being just 10% off your maximum is going to leave you eating dust. At our best, we’d struggle with them.

‘Motivation to play their best’ - they’re not being given the platform to play their best. That’s the point. Ole isn’t setting them up to be their best. He’s hanging them out to dry. If Klopp stuck Henderson up front, would you expect him to play his best? If a player doubts a manager, it only takes that little drop, that 10% before it starts to manifest in all different ways.


As for shouting, I saw plenty of it. DDG going nuts, Bruno was yelling at lot, Ronaldo was yelling a lot. It doesn’t really mean anything though. And if anybody should be doing that, it should be the manager. He just sits there, so they take their cues from him. Look at Liverpool and City. Pep and Klopp constantly on it, constantly instructing their players and it shows. They’re full of energy.

Do you hives or believe that if this group of players had been playing under Klopp or pep for years that they wouldn’t be better? The ones who weren’t up to it would have been weeded our, but I’m damn sure it wouldn’t be all of them.

Nobody looks more lost, frustrated and loose right now than Bruno. You can’t question his work rate or his desire to win.

Ronaldo hasn’t scored for four games. He’s one of the finest winners of all time.

Maguire looks hapless after having a strong tournament for England. Same with Shaw. Fred looks better for Brazil.

These are all good pros, I don’t doubt that… but if they’re rudderless they’ll look poor.

I’m not absolving them of responsibility but to criticise how they are when they’re 4-0 down seems to miss the point that we’re 4-0 down because of how we set up and how we perform every week.

All i am saying i think is that there are 3 elements

1. Tactics - who plays where in what system.
2. Coaching - getting players better able technically to deliver the tactics.
3. Motivation - which has 2 elements extrinsic and instrinsic. We know the latter is a stronger force.

So i suppose when I am apportioning blame its 5/6ths the managerial/coachingteam/club (who have a role) and 1/6th players or some of the players. Agree on the mentality of Bruno, Ronaldo, Scotty and Fred who is always the first to pile in for a teammate.

There was very little communication amongst the back four in the first half. More just shrugging - they should have been £#%&!ing livid.

We need some

Originally Posted by redhegemony

All i am saying i think is that there are 3 elements

1. Tactics - who plays where in what system.
2. Coaching - getting players better able technically to deliver the tactics.
3. Motivation - which has 2 elements extrinsic and instrinsic. We know the latter is a stronger force.

So i suppose when I am apportioning blame its 5/6ths the managerial/coachingteam/club (who have a role) and 1/6th players or some of the players. Agree on the mentality of Bruno, Ronaldo, Scotty and Fred who is always the first to pile in for a teammate.

There was very little communication amongst the back four in the first half. More just shrugging - they should have been £#%&!ing livid.

We need some

Don’t really disagree with any of that, just the role motivation plays. It’s an overrated concept. Gets ya going, but not much else.

That back four is a quiet one, admittedly. Maguire is an odd one. Sometimes he seems like a good leader, others he’s withdrawn. He strikes me as someone who isn’t naturally confident, but has grown into it, but when things go really south, he reverts to type. AWB isn’t especially vocal, but hes a hard worker. Another one who I believe would be a much more solid defender under the right guidance.

Shaw is a problem. He always has been. He had an excellent year last year, but it’s not at all surprising to see his silly little brain get carried away and for those standards to quickly drop again. Constantly needs a rocket up his arse and I’d be dropping him for Telles right now - another good pro who deserves a chance. He’s never moaned about moving here and not playing and has some talent, you can see that.

One or two of them need taking out the firing line. Pogba enforced absence is good. Bruno could do with a rest. Greenwood is starting to flag and we’ve plenty of options there and there was no reason at all to keep Ronaldo on for 90 minutes yesterday.

Whoever is in charge for however long, I’d like to see some changes. Telles, Sancho, VDB and maybe even the likes of Bailly and Lingard. Not because they’re good, but some need taking out of there and we need some fresh impetus.

Club is rotten right through.

The ground is falling to bits; the training and academy set ups are in shit condition - the building at the Cliff is condemned and Carrington is third division compared to the Etihad, Finch Farm and Kirkby
The Academy have scrapped development centres so rely on buying in a lot of talent - how is that going? The u23s lost 6-0 at West Ham Saturday and we hardly have talent banging on the door do we?
The first team squad is littered with marquee players who give us commercial clout (Pogba, Ronaldo, Cavani, Sancho). When we buy young players they aren't given minutes.

First team matters are down to the manager. OGS must fall on his sword. Legend on the field, not so as a coach. They should all go with him. But don't kid yourselves that this is just him. The club needs a proper root and branch clean out and refurb. That means the gimps and their acolytes, but with £19m a year divvys and $166m shares sales that isn't happening soon.

Originally Posted by Ethers

“ One source cited the lack of understanding between Cristiano Ronaldo and Mason Greenwood as being down to Solskjaer and his inability to force the pair to link up more convincingly. Teammates have noticed that the pair rarely pass to each other in attacking positions and that Ronaldo is becoming visibly irritated by his young teammate's decision to shoot rather than pass in goal-scoring positions”

Ronaldo can £#%&! right off.

To be fair Greenwood is a greedy £#%&!er who needs to get his head up at times rather then shooting when there are better options.

Originally Posted by Dr Stranger

Don’t really disagree with any of that, just the role motivation plays. It’s an overrated concept. Gets ya going, but not much else.

That back four is a quiet one, admittedly. Maguire is an odd one. Sometimes he seems like a good leader, others he’s withdrawn. He strikes me as someone who isn’t naturally confident, but has grown into it, but when things go really south, he reverts to type. AWB isn’t especially vocal, but hes a hard worker. Another one who I believe would be a much more solid defender under the right guidance.

Shaw is a problem. He always has been. He had an excellent year last year, but it’s not at all surprising to see his silly little brain get carried away and for those standards to quickly drop again. Constantly needs a rocket up his arse and I’d be dropping him for Telles right now - another good pro who deserves a chance. He’s never moaned about moving here and not playing and has some talent, you can see that.

One or two of them need taking out the firing line. Pogba enforced absence is good. Bruno could do with a rest. Greenwood is starting to flag and we’ve plenty of options there and there was no reason at all to keep Ronaldo on for 90 minutes yesterday.

Whoever is in charge for however long, I’d like to see some changes. Telles, Sancho, VDB and maybe even the likes of Bailly and Lingard. Not because they’re good, but some need taking out of there and we need some fresh impetus.

That intrinsic motivation is what drags the best players through when the chips are down. We can all think of examples: Keane' semi final v Juve, Beckham v Greece but also those other players who consistently wanted to be the best they could and pushed themselves Neville and Bruce are good examples and probably Ole himself. This may be part of the issue given how driven he was maybe Ole can't understand why that isn't enough.

Maguire doesn't seem that confident a figure and with 3 quiet players around him it's a very unimposing group.

Am paraphrasing Keane here but if anyone needs motivating to play for United (never mind against Liverpool), they should be the first ones out the door.

Originally Posted by Mr_Ed

To be fair Greenwood is a greedy £#%&!er who needs to get his head up at times rather then shooting when there are better options.

like a young ronaldo?

should scroll back, but.... you know.

Originally Posted by redhegemony

That intrinsic motivation is what drags the best players through when the chips are down. We can all think of examples: Keane' semi final v Juve, Beckham v Greece but also those other players who consistently wanted to be the best they could and pushed themselves Neville and Bruce are good examples and probably Ole himself. This may be part of the issue given how driven he was maybe Ole can't understand why that isn't enough.

Maguire doesn't seem that confident a figure and with 3 quiet players around him it's a very unimposing group.

I think we’re in danger of going off point. The criticism began with questioning why these players are taking more professional pride when they’re 3-0 down. That’s a very different scenario to the chips being down, but the tie still alive in a champions league semi final.

We’re not a header from a corner or a free kick away from glory. We’re on the floor and the sum of some awful performances spanning the better part of a year.

I’m not for a moment suggesting Maguire and co have the fortitude of Roy Keane, but i think to question their professionalism when they’re 4-0 down is missing the point of why we’re 4-0 down.

Saying Maguire should be here or certain players should have played instead or those details seems a bit like rearranging deck chairs on the titanic.

Originally Posted by Gypsum Fantastic

Am paraphrasing Keane here but if anyone needs motivating to play for United (never mind against Liverpool), they should be the first ones out the door.

This. Far too many making excuses for players who haven't been good enough.
We've been down this road before. We need to change the manager but more importantly the attitude of the entire club must change.
Not going to happen under the current regime.

Originally Posted by Hank Scorpio

This. Far too many making excuses for players who haven't been good enough.
We've been down this road before. We need to change the manager but more importantly the attitude of the entire club must change.
Not going to happen under the current regime.

Well, I certainly don’t disagree that our problems extend well beyond Solskjaer.

He needs to go, but I’ve no faith we’ll get the next move right. I find it depressing that we don’t think we’d go for Erik Ten Hag because we don’t have the structure in place for him.

Originally Posted by Dr Stranger

Well, I certainly don’t disagree that our problems extend well beyond Solskjaer.

He needs to go, but I’ve no faith we’ll get the next move right. I find it depressing that we don’t think we’d go for Erik Ten Hag because we don’t have the structure in place for him.

Fully agree. The club will lurch from one crisis to another until they put a structure of people in place that can run a football club. Once you do that you can sack as many managers as you want.
That will cost money though and won't generate enough likes so won't happen.

Originally Posted by Dr Stranger

Well, I certainly don’t disagree that our problems extend well beyond Solskjaer.

He needs to go, but I’ve no faith we’ll get the next move right. I find it depressing that we don’t think we’d go for Erik Ten Hag because we don’t have the structure in place for him.

They won't even have heard of him.

if the club sacks him now it might push the result off the the top story

win-win

Originally Posted by Lazlo Panaflex

if the club sacks him now it might push the result off the the top story

win-win

The more left field the new appointment, the better. Allardyce, or Larry David or someone.

Originally Posted by Zorg

The more left field the new appointment, the better. Allardyce, or Larry David or someone.

honestly with these idiots in control who knows.

introducing donald trump.

Originally Posted by Lazlo Panaflex

honestly with these idiots in control who knows.

introducing donald trump.

Make Manchester United great again! Think of the merchandise appeal with the hats alone! Woodward will be all over it