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Originally Posted by Darmian_fan

Winning gives our club the legitimate right to be called the best. Manchester United want to be best, that has always been the target of Sir Matt Busby or Sir Alex. Ultimately it's a results based industry.

Bragging rights. Jesus. Most people get over that aspect of football being the most important by the age of 25, so yes, entertainment is important.

Originally Posted by bigmikea

bragging rights. Jesus. Most people get over that aspect of football being the most important by the age of 25, so yes, entertainment is important.

25?

Originally Posted by Jack Duckworth

25?

I was being generous for the sake of some members of the forum

Originally Posted by Darmian_fan

Winning gives our club the legitimate right to be called the best. Manchester United want to be best, that has always been the target of Sir Matt Busby or Sir Alex. Ultimately it's a results based industry.

I don't understand the complain that we are dull, because it's as if it's actually our team's fault that the game is so dull. Do we park the bus like Chelsea do? It's the other team's fault that they park the bus and we have to keep on passing until we find a gap. People criticize Barca, Bayern and Spain for the same thing, but in fact it's the opposition who sit back and make the match dull.

Why don't the media ask these defensive teams to come and play? Once they do, you will see gaps opening up and United will be banging on goals and you will be entertained.

I think you'll find it's an entertainment industry. soz.

also, busby and ferguson knew that, for united, it is not enough merely to win. we have to win in style.

Never known such a split .when the league is sown up some serious @#%&!s will be ill with it .. Im interested to know what marlos feelings are from the city players point of view

Originally Posted by Tiberian

Jesus £#%&!ing Christ.

Where do you even start with that shite? The football we are playing now is some of the best in your memory? Watch that first half yesterday and tell me that with a straight face, the ineptitude of Sunderland was the only interesting thing about it.

This nonsense that Fergies sides were only counter attacking cross merchants is laughable, Utd rarely had less than the majority of possession but the intent was to play with speed and penetrate rather than look for sterile control at all times.

The Bayern under Hitzfield who won the CL played in a very Utd style, high tempo attacking play, aggressive approach, numbers committed forward.

Yet, Hitzfield's Bayern never dominated the European and the domestic football like this generation. Now, Bayern score 4-5 very frequently against the likes of even Wolfsburg. I believe we will be like that once our youngsters flourish. I want United to be as dominant in EPL as Bayern are in Bundesliga.

Originally Posted by jem

I think you'll find it's an entertainment industry. soz.

also, busby and ferguson knew that, for united, it is not enough merely to win. we have to win in style.

Yeah...United won the league in 2009, 2011, 2013 with so much style...wow...

Originally Posted by bigMikeA

Bragging rights. Jesus. Most people get over that aspect of football being the most important by the age of 25, so yes, entertainment is important.

If you merely want to be entertained and damn care about result, go support Arsenal. I LVG's United do entertain, but without forgetting to keep the shape. If people aren't entertained by the likes of Martial, Depay(from what he has done in Europe), Mata, Schweinsteiger, Pereiera, then nobody can entertain them.

Football should be always about passing and movement, our 45 pass goal is an example of that. I want United to tire and kill the opposition by possession and win, just like Bayern, Barca and Spain(used to do).

I never thought the shite football United played in winning between 2009-13 was about Fergie's stylistic approach tbh. I think it was more a poorly constructed team with no real pattern and almost certainly poor training preparation. Signing Kagawa to presumably play off Rooney and then just getting RvP when he became available summed it up. I think Fergie almost always wanted to remain positive, but when it's Rene and Mike on the training ground you'll probably not get what you want.

Watch Fergie's latest interview and you see how little work he did on the training ground in terms of detail. That's a huge change for the players, so van Gaal is having to do it piece by piece. Next step probably more regular and sustained threat against low defences.

Originally Posted by Darmian_fan

Yet, Hitzfield's Bayern never dominated the European and the domestic football like this generation. Now, Bayern score 4-5 very frequently against the likes of even Wolfsburg. I believe we will be like that once our youngsters flourish. I want United to be as dominant in EPL as Bayern are in Bundesliga.

When did Pep's Bayern dominate Europe? When have they even reached a final?

Their dominance in Germany is mainly based on their financial power, and ability to take their main rivals best players. It is a less competitive league than the PL.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

I never thought the shite football United played in winning between 2009-13 was about Fergie's stylistic approach tbh. I think it was more a poorly constructed team with no real pattern and almost certainly poor training preparation. Signing Kagawa to presumably play off Rooney and then just getting RvP when he became available summed it up. I think Fergie almost always wanted to remain positive, but when it's Rene and Mike on the training ground you'll probably not get what you want.

Watch Fergie's latest interview and you see how little work he did on the training ground in terms of detail. That's a huge change for the players, so van Gaal is having to do it piece by piece. Next step probably more regular and sustained threat against low defences.

Don't say that, it's a blasphemous lie, Fergie apparently more stylish football than the likes of Barca/Ajax.

Originally Posted by Tiberian

When did Pep's Bayern dominate Europe? When have they even reached a final?

Their dominance in Germany is mainly based on their financial power, and ability to take their main rivals best players. It is a less competitive league than the PL.

I'm not talking just about Pep's Era. Since 2010, Bayern reached 3 finals and reached at least the semis 5 times(btw, which Bayern manager started that run? ). If that's not dominance, I don't know what is. In that time range of 5 years, Hitzfeld never managed Bayern, wonder if you are mixing him up with Heynckes.

Originally Posted by Tiberian

When did Pep's Bayern dominate Europe? When have they even reached a final?

Their dominance in Germany is mainly based on their financial power, and ability to take their main rivals best players. It is a less competitive league than the PL.

That is true, but overlooked in writing off Bayern's supremacy under Pep is that when he arrived they had won just 3 of the last 7 Bundesliga titles. They'd only won back-to-back titles twice in the previous 20 years. The sustained brilliance is worthy of praise.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

That is true, but overlooked in writing off Bayern's supremacy under Pep is that when he arrived they had won just 3 of the last 7 Bundesliga titles. They'd only won back-to-back titles twice in the previous 20 years. The sustained brilliance is worthy of praise.

It is but the board has never been as stacked in their favour as it is now. They have no legitimate challenger and it looks close to impossible for one to develop without massive outside investment.

Originally Posted by Tiberian

It is but the board has never been as stacked in their favour as it is now. They have no legitimate challenger and it looks close to impossible for one to develop without massive outside investment.

Yeah, I meant to note that the way they play more than anything. They should be winning the title there, but they really do play fantastic stuff weekly. Even in the Champions League, but they run out of steam it seems. That plus the drop in intensity when they secure the Bundesliga in April doesn't help. I think Pep will be desperate for Dortmund to push them this year.

fergie relied on talent. now we rely on a plan.

Also says a bit for Pep's ability that he goes into the treble winners and convinces them to change training so much. And they buy into it.

also, fergie lost his balls somewhere along the way and decided that not being totally embarrassed was more important than giving us a chance to win.

Originally Posted by jem

also, fergie lost his balls somewhere along the way and decided that not being totally embarrassed was more important than giving us a chance to win.

There was a balance to be found after the goals we shipped in '99 and then given how Madrid and Bayern murdered us in '00 and '01. We did need to become more difficult to play against. But in the modern day you felt that it was vital for him to have a strong coaching staff to add a little to the technical and tactical side of the game. Some felt it was too lazy and neat at the time to blame Mike and Rene, but United were at their most rounded when Fergie had Queiroz.

Loads of revsionism regarding Fergie's last few years tbh.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

There was a balance to be found after the goals we shipped in '99 and then given how Madrid and Bayern murdered us in '00 and '01. We did need to become more difficult to play against. But in the modern day you felt that it was vital for him to have a strong coaching staff to add a little to the technical and tactical side of the game. Some felt it was too lazy and neat at the time to blame Mike and Rene, but United were at their most rounded when Fergie had Queiroz.

because queiroz wouldn't pick park ahead of nani or berbs?

Originally Posted by jem

because queiroz wouldn't pick park ahead of nani or berbs?

Park left out the squad in Moscow iirc. To playing part of the final in central midfield two years later.

October will be the test

Arsenal (a)
Everton (a)
City (h)
Palace (a)

Hopefully LvG wakes up out of his slumber.

Might as well throw in the Wolfsburg game in there too, though i'm not sure if it can be called 'must win'.