Why do you think the boycott has failed to attract the support of the large majority of Utd fans?

Originally Posted by celtbion

What's an overwhelming minority mate?

Not a clue

The real reason is that most people care more about getting a ticket than they do about whether or not the club will go bankrupt in the future.

Originally Posted by celtbion

Regarding the question of what SU are doing with their money.

I pulled out my money when I felt I didn't see them doing anything with it to help Utd in the situation the club found itself in.

I suggested that we should have come to an arrangement with these "investors" regarding options to build up a minority stake in the club over a long period of time. A concrete arrangement which would see the club ultimately being owned by the fans. Ideally, in the interim, this would have included some form of elected representative that could sit in on board meetings.

This could have been funded by an optional levy on season tickets, MUTV subscriptions, merchandising, all of which would have flowed into the fan's trust and put towards purchasing additional stakes in the club year by year.

I dunno, I think it might have worked. Clearly it's a little too close to "helping the Glazers" for a lot of people's tastes but it would set the ball rolling for ultimate fan ownership.

This was one of the plans - Nomura (I think it was - they were Japanese anyhow) were ready to put money in place. I think it was pretty close to going ahead as well.

Originally Posted by Spiffy

The real reason is that most people care more about getting a ticket than they do about whether or not the club will go bankrupt in the future.

If only you'd turned up sooner you could have saved us all the trouble.

I personally blame Tony Blair and New Labour

I don't see what's wrong with "just" wanting to support the team.

I don't like being told what to do, I tolerate it at work because I get paid for it. I won't (and don't) put up with it when it comes to watching United. Boycott Nike blah blah blah Audi blah Budweiser( I didn't mind that one it tastes of piss) blah blah Vodafone. The semis at Cardiff it's too far we want it at Villa Park the semis at Villa Park its not big enough we want it at the Emirates. You can buy a pie here but but not here. Watching United is stressful enough without some Che Guevara wannabe shouting in your ear.

Watching United is stressful enough without some Che Guevara wannabe shouting in your ear.


£#%&!in class

Originally Posted by Mr. Rosewater

This was one of the plans - Nomura (I think it was - they were Japanese anyhow) were ready to put money in place. I think it was pretty close to going ahead as well.

What?!

SU game me short shrift when I suggested that to them.

Originally Posted by jem

so what you're saying is, people are stupid? ok, that could be the answer. I'd buy that.

er, yeah. a few people putting up umbrellas is pointless. everyone boycotting certainly wouldn't have been.

that doesn't explain why people didn't boycott.

now who's scaremongering? the mere credible threat of a boycott would have seen off glazer.

I'm not sure I blame apathy at all. it was more like resignation and frustration (caused by poor leadership.... I know.... I blame myself for not being on the ball).

people aren't prepared to boycott unless they think it will achieve something.

you're back to the vast majority are stupid again? ok. our youth squad? are you for real?

ah. now hold on.... we have a sensible caller.

it's as if you are actually trying to be a tiresome £#%&!wit (in which case, job well done, take a biscuit). maybe, just maybe, the broad support was against glazer, but maybe they felt powerless. maybe they felt they didn't have any choice but to wait and see.

you and your matchgoing reds. shyeah, there's no such thing as a match-going doomlord.

just out of interest, what do you think would be the result of a boycott leading to bankruptcy? I wonder if anyone could be persuaded to take united over. as a going concern. of course, it might prove hard to convince a real businessman that there was any kind of money to be made out football.


personally, my complete stab in the dark would be that a piecemeal boycott, hoping to snowball, was never ever going to work. people could see that if they gave up their season tickets, all that would happen is that some other schmuck would buy it, few others would bother boycotting and the net result would be glazer getting just as much money as he would have done, except that particular fan would be missing the games and never get his season ticket back. people simply thought "why should I shoot myself in the foot when no one else can be arsed?" I believe that if people had thought there would be a mass boycott - big enough to make a difference - they would have happily joined it. that they didn't and that people felt they had no way properly to express their anger or take action that would actually have any effect other than briefly drawing attention to themselves and annoying a few people is just down to ignorance, a lack of imagination and a lack of leadership (with those who might have guided people too busy suggesting people could actually buy enough shares to make a defensive stake big enough to prevent the takeover, which was a £#%&!ing joke).

most people (I'm guessing, of course, I didn't shake hands with each of them at the game) just saw some massive unstoppable financial business thing that they didn't really understand and couldn't believe they could stand up to. most people didn't appreciate the debilitating effect of taking the most profitable sports franchise in the world and lumbering it with an unsustainable level of debt (or thought the glazers must have some great secret plan) - some complete £#%&!wits still don't, of course (the piano has not landed on my head yet, so I will not step out from under this looming shadow... why are people shouting at me and waving their arms?). most people thought that price rises were inevitable. most people didn't realise that we, as consumers, hold the ultimate power and could change the £#%&!ing world.

most people also seem happy to accept or ignore genocide, destitution, human trafficking, prejudice, mismanagement of the transport system, the unrepresentative nature of government, fat people and dull clothes. most people can't see past the end of their £#%&!ing noses. most people live in a little bubble of wilful ignorance, stupidity, apathy, irresponsibility and cynicism.

most people on this thread would £#%&!ing burst into tears if they got neg repped.

werent you bored at the end of that ?

I think a lot of the new united fans now are there to be entertained and see united win trophies. I predict united's crowds could be down by around 20% if they went five seasons without winning anything. If the debt levels are still what they are now and that happened, it could spell trouble.

Originally Posted by walker1978

werent you bored at the end of that ?

£#%&! off... I love myself. it never gets old.

Originally Posted by jem

£#%&! off... I love myself. it never gets old.

maybe not, but it is very £#%&!ing tiresome now.
i cant believe you still have it in you to write a post like that without faling asleep...fair play to you

because nobody knew there was a boycott unless they happend to post on the fredtissue. Plus there is no organisation in as much as how to boycott.

Originally Posted by walker1978

maybe not, but it is very £#%&!ing tiresome now.
i cant believe you still have it in you to write a post like that without faling asleep...fair play to you

I'm right about the neg rep, though, aren't I? :0)

I can't speak for anyone but myself so i will tell you why i don't boycott.

I was a member of SU since around 2003ish, i seriously believed that we the fans could hold shares in our club and one day have a sizable chunk that would give us a say in how the club was run.
The numbers added up, there where enough reds to do this why wouldn't anyone want to own shares in their club? it would only take £10 from each fan and the club was safe.

Then came the talk of the Irish taking over and later the Americans, it then became apparent that i was part of a minority, most United fans couldn't be arsed buying shares, what i considered to be common sense others thought was a waste of time, i then realised that the majority of United fans didn't care as long as they got to watch the reds lift a few trophies, they only cared about bragging rights with their friends and basking in the warmth of supporting the winning team.

I stood outside Old Trafford metrolink station on the night of the Milan game, this was going to be the protest to get the message home, the end was coming surely everyone knew it was all or nothing, we needed to show them we meant business.
Floods of reds got of the trams, the majority of those floods carried on walking, when asked too join the protest they either ignored or said they where going to the pub instead, it was over.

It is then that i decided "£#%&! 'em", why should i be the one to make a stand when no £#%&!er else would, i was sick of fighting for these @#%&!s, if we had beaten the Glazers these £#%&!ing spineless £#%&!ers would bask in the glory and tell family and friends that they where there, well £#%&! off because the @#%&!s now have the regime they deserve.

I don't boycott because it means nothing now, i still go the game every week, i watch the game and then i £#%&! off home, FC is another protest but like all the other protests no one is interested and it will make £#%&! all difference, this is not a slight on FC fans, fairplay if the fight still burns inside but for me it went out that night before the Milan game.

Because majority of people that buy things from the mega store etc never go the football and come from places like china. How are we expected to reach out to them. Plus the @#%&!s in are own back yard that still buy stuff. And the silly £#%&!ers like me I suppose who have still got a season ticket.

Originally Posted by hughes......oh i say!

because nobody knew there was a boycott unless they happend to post on the fredtissue. Plus there is no organisation in as much as how to boycott.

To a large extent this is true,there was a lack of a concerted leadership which inevitably was reflected by fragmentation with many tacitly supporting Glazer and renewing their STs.This is not an accusation but a fact.Glazer wanted the cash and regardless of the antipathy felt towards him the renewal of STs and the subsequent cash inflow strengthened his position.

After the Century hall meeting the fight degenerated into rhetoric.If the leadership or people percieved as leaders were not going to sacrifice and struggle then many others on the periphery were not going to follow such a disjointed and confusing strategy.Many of those still undecided both within OT and outside had seen which way the chips were falling and hitched their wagons accordingly.The boycott was essentially over for the oncoming period

As a tactic the validity of a boycott has yet to be disproven despite all the cheap sniping of the apologists.

The power was there when he arrived and although unfortunately unused then, it can still be used in the future.

Originally Posted by jem

maybe, just maybe, the broad support was against glazer, but maybe they felt powerless. maybe they felt they didn't have any choice but to wait and see.

This I agree with. Took a while to find it!

With that I'd have to accept that my use of 'apathy' was wrong. Lots of people cared but nothing really got done.

we couldn't even organise a march and a ONE GAME boycott.

wow. my opinion has been picked off bit by bit

once you realise how seldom people go the game, then you realise how utterly irrelevant their opinions are.......

there's really not much poihnt of saying anything else about this thread. i've been quoted a couple of times by someone who's probably been to OT less in the past 12 years than I have in the last month...