Ole

lily-livered sissies

Originally Posted by Sparky***

Please enlighten me... what's he trying to do there tonight?

Anyone?

I don’t know Sparky; let’s just sack him because we really have no clue how to fix things outside of binning one man and starting again every year or so until we stumble on someone who has that magic six month winning formula, because really we should at least be honest with the next guy that he has six months and one window or he’s out.

It’s poor. Everyone can see it’s poor. I don’t know if Ole is the right guy or not, but until he’s able to get some quality in this squad neither do you. Before he started I bet you were thinking two or three years to fix this mess; I certainly was. So is it the process that we can’t take?

I really don’t know if he should be doing a better job or not, or if it would look like this under anyone. Either is possible because we’ve had Champions League winning managers and it’s been garbage under them too.

Originally Posted by utd99

I don’t know Sparky; let’s just sack him because we really have no clue how to fix things outside of binning one man and starting again every year or so until we stumble on someone who has that magic six month winning formula, because really we should at least be honest with the next guy that he has six months and one window or he’s out.

It’s poor. Everyone can see it’s poor. I don’t know if Ole is the right guy or not, but until he’s able to get some quality in this squad neither do you. Before he started I bet you were thinking two or three years to fix this mess; I certainly was. So is it the process that we can’t take?

I really don’t know if he should be doing a better job or not, or if it would look like this under anyone. Either is possible because we’ve had Champions League winning managers and it’s been garbage under them too.

You're spot on.

I think the road will always be harder under a manager who wants to grow with the side. Exactly as it was with Fergie.

Now, if you were to tell me that Pochettino wanted to stick with us over a number of years as he root and branch changed the current ethos of the club, fine.

But he's shown himself incapable of winning anything, flirted with Real Madrid, and ended up being hoofed by shitty Spurs. He also had the opportunity to come here and, as far as we know, declined the offer.

I just don't see the glaring alternative to Ole out there.

Originally Posted by Cream

You're spot on.

I think the road will always be harder under a manager who wants to grow with the side. Exactly as it was with Fergie.

Now, if you were to tell me that Pochettino wanted to stick with us over a number of years as he root and branch changed the current ethos of the club, fine.

But he's shown himself incapable of winning anything, flirted with Real Madrid, and ended up being hoofed by shitty Spurs. He also had the opportunity to come here and, as far as we know, declined the offer.

I just don't see the glaring alternative to Ole out there.

Allegri is the man we want.

There is no denying the team is shit and in need of a re build.

So to put a different spin on it why are we gambling on a rookie mananger to rebuild a team like Manchester United. No other top club in the world would do that! Its beggers belief it really is.

If any decent manager comes up we should be in for him or we will regret it!

Fast forward a year, that gives him this window and summer to try and do something (which he wont).

When we still play the same shit football with the same shit @#%&! players he will have less places to hide, on here at least.

Originally Posted by utd99

I don’t know Sparky; let’s just sack him because we really have no clue how to fix things outside of binning one man and starting again every year or so until we stumble on someone who has that magic six month winning formula, because really we should at least be honest with the next guy that he has six months and one window or he’s out.

It’s poor. Everyone can see it’s poor. I don’t know if Ole is the right guy or not, but until he’s able to get some quality in this squad neither do you. Before he started I bet you were thinking two or three years to fix this mess; I certainly was. So is it the process that we can’t take?

I really don’t know if he should be doing a better job or not, or if it would look like this under anyone. Either is possible because we’ve had Champions League winning managers and it’s been garbage under them too.

That's all fair enough, but are we assessing solely at the end of the three years, or can we assess how we're getting along?

If it's going to take 3 years, we're 1/3 in. Do we look like we are?

Can we except to see progress before the final product?

I like the idea of what hes trying to do the wider sense: young, hungry squad with something to prove. An 'arm round the shoulder' kind of manager.... but I question his ability as a coach. And his coaching team. We look badly coached in the sense we don't look coached at all.

We counter attack well if afforded space. Apart from that, I'm not sure what else we do well.

The personnel issue is totally correct and it's only fair to acknowledge that most of these o
Players are not his, but we can still expect to see some coaching, some identity.

When we're not counter attacking, what are we? What's our style? f***ed if I know and I think we should know or have an idea after 12 months.

Originally Posted by barca99

on here at least.

Which is where it counts to you tbf.

Originally Posted by Whiteside onside

Allegri is the man we want.

Originally Posted by dunk

And why not ? he's available too

Originally Posted by barca99

There is no denying the team is shit and in need of a re build.

So to put a different spin on it why are we gambling on a rookie mananger to rebuild a team like Manchester United. No other top club in the world would do that! Its beggers belief it really is.

If any decent manager comes up we should be in for him or we will regret it!

Fast forward a year, that gives him this window and summer to try and do something (which he wont).

When we still play the same shit football with the same shit @#%&! players he will have less places to hide, on here at least.

How did pep get his start? What about zidane? I could name a load of others but there would be no point

Originally Posted by armchair

How did pep get his start? What about zidane? I could name a load of others but there would be no point

Not all ex players turn in to good managers you know?

Originally Posted by armchair

How did pep get his start? What about zidane? I could name a load of others but there would be no point

Exactly.

It shouldn’t be on Ole (or any other manager) to rebuild us.

We should have a footballing structure in place that allows the first team manager to concentrate on coaching etc.

The board is what’s failing us over and over again.

Originally Posted by Dr Stranger

That's all fair enough, but are we assessing solely at the end of the three years, or can we assess how we're getting along?

If it's going to take 3 years, we're 1/3 in. Do we look like we are?

Can we except to see progress before the final product?

I like the idea of what hes trying to do the wider sense: young, hungry squad with something to prove. An 'arm round the shoulder' kind of manager.... but I question his ability as a coach. And his coaching team. We look badly coached in the sense we don't look coached at all.

We counter attack well if afforded space. Apart from that, I'm not sure what else we do well.

The personnel issue is totally correct and it's only fair to acknowledge that most of these o
Players are not his, but we can still expect to see some coaching, some identity.

When we're not counter attacking, what are we? What's our style? £#%&!ed if I know and I think we should know or have an idea after 12 months.

It’s a fair question, and no reasonable person should ignore it. What exactly should we look like, and be, at this stage of the fix? I don’t know; probably better than we are now is the simple answer. So does that mean he’s doing a shit job, or that the tools he has to work with are just that bad - or in the case of the academy players, just that bad at the moment?

I think there are a few positions on the field that the right players -so 2 or 3 to start - would make a world of difference to us, and I’m not having that it’s as easy as saying poor tactics or badly coached, because if you sent that Liverpool team out with exactly the same plan they win that game 4-0, 4-1.

Too much of the reason we’re poor is just bad execution and mistake after mistake after mistake. What do you do on the training pitch, tell them not to mis-control it, not play passes behind runners, not shoot into row Z? They know this already mate.

Originally Posted by utd99

I don’t know Sparky.

So you were talking %@#$&!s then?

You said to me "can you not see what he's trying to do"? As if there was some grander footballing picture i wasn't seeing.

So, I'm asking you again, what is it? Because i'll be honest with you, and it may just be me missing this glorious plan that is unfolding week by week, but i see a load of poorly coached shit.

Consistently abysmal performances going back to March 2019. That's getting on for a £#%&!ing year now and it's pretty much been downward trajectory.

Your argument seems to be one born out of nothing but loyalty to the man based on his identity and stubbornness because you don't want the club to keep changing managers all the time. That's a fine stance to have, but at some point actual football results have to interfere with your ideology.

Originally Posted by barca99

So to put a different spin on it why are we gambling on a rookie mananger to rebuild a team like Manchester United. No other top club in the world would do that! Its beggers belief it really is.

Well we didn’t; we gambled on one experienced Prem manager, and two Champions League winning managers, and it was varying degrees of awful. In fact Ole only got the job because he did a better job with the most successful manager of the last two decade’s players than he did himself.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

So you were talking %@#$&!s then?

You said to me "can you not see what he's trying to do"? As if there was some grander footballing picture i wasn't seeing.

So, I'm asking you again, what is it? Because i'll be honest with you, and it may just be me missing this glorious plan that is unfolding week by week, but i see a load of poorly coached shit.

Consistently abysmal performances going back to March 2019. That's getting on for a £#%&!ing year now and it's pretty much been downward trajectory.

Your argument seems to be one born out of nothing but loyalty to the man based on his identity and stubbornness because you don't want the club to keep changing managers all the time. That's a fine stance to have, but at some point actual football results have to interfere with your ideology.

That’s a cheap bullshit idiotic response and I didn’t get past your dishonest first line.

Just £#%&! off you miserable @#%&!, you’ve got no answers outside of constant bitching and sacking the £#%&!ing manager.

Originally Posted by utd99

Well we didn’t; we gambled on one experienced Prem manager, and two Champions League winning managers, and it was varying degrees of awful. In fact Ole only got the job because he did a better job with the most successful manager of the last two decade’s players than he did himself.



That’s a cheap bullshit idiotic response and I didn’t get past your dishonest first line.

Just £#%&! off you miserable @#%&!, you’ve got no answers outside of constant bitching and sacking the £#%&!ing manager.

you see, now you've made it personal because you couldn't back up what you said.

Originally Posted by utd99

It’s a fair question, and no reasonable person should ignore it. What exactly should we look like, and be, at this stage of the fix? I don’t know; probably better than we are now is the simple answer. So does that mean he’s doing a shit job, or that the tools he has to work with are just that bad - or in the case of the academy players, just that bad at the moment?

I think there are a few positions on the field that the right players -so 2 or 3 to start - would make a world of difference to us, and I’m not having that it’s as easy as saying poor tactics or badly coached, because if you sent that Liverpool team out with exactly the same plan they win that game 4-0, 4-1.

Too much of the reason we’re poor is just bad execution and mistake after mistake after mistake. What do you do on the training pitch, tell them not to mis-control it, not play passes behind runners, not shoot into row Z? They know this already mate.

Again, I fundamentally agree.

We have more questions and answers, for sure.

As for Liverpool winning 4-0. I'd say that partly because of their players and partly because of their plan. They're not a special group of players. They're a better team than they are a team of good players


The shots into row z etc are down to the players, but how responsible is the manager for that? If he's not telling them do that, then they are either igorning him or they aren't getting the message.

Does that not reflect on him too?

Even outside of that, I'm not seeing a team that look well coached, but are let down by poor finishing or bad decision-making, there have more things wrong than right.

As with any manager, the buck stops with them.

One year in, there are few tangible improvements on the pitch.

Should we just sack him and give up? No, I don't think so. But neither should we blindly give anyone 3 years simply so we can say we've fairly judged them.

He has to marry the present needs and the future. The present will only be allowed to get so bad. It's not there yet, but every performance like today we have to endure only adds fuel to concern. And the further along the progression they happen, the more concerning they are IMO.

Originally Posted by Whiteside onside

Allegri is the man we want.

Don't know enough about him to comment.

https://www.theguardian.com/football...ni-lippi-conte

A lack of a European trophy and a brand of football that was perceived as dull and pragmatic ultimately ended a marriage where love never truly blossomed. While Allegri was not universally liked by Juventus fans, he has earned his place in the club’s history and, statistically at least, should be considered among their greatest ever managers.

I'm not loving that.

I think the fact we've shipped out the likes of Lukaku, Smalling and Sanchez, while relegating the likes of Matic to emergency cover, is a pretty radical sign of intent.

It's a big change though. New players and youth promotions need time to bed in. We won't see real improvement until we've had at least another summer transfer window.

Regarding coaching:
Sometimes it just needs someone capable of making the big picture decisions. He's there to manage at the end of the day, and earning the respect of the players makes a huge difference.

He might even surprise us all and shake up the coaching staff.

Obviously a lot rides on the owners, and whether Ed can convince them to loosen the purse strings. As for his ability to actually sign players.... we're at his mercy no matter who is in charge.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

you see, now you've made it personal because you couldn't back up what you said.

No, because you’re not discussing anything; you’re taking my honesty and scoring cheap points off it. £#%&! off.

Originally Posted by Whiteside onside

Not all ex players turn in to good managers you know?

No, but they're examples that managers with no experience CAN succeed. Especially at the club they were associated with.

And we've done experience. They were shit too.

Ole's lack of experience isnt an issue for me. It's more about how he's actually doing in the job.