can we set some parameters please

Originally Posted by utd99

Top four is going to be hard from this position. Unlikely I'd say.

What position? A few points away from it? Top 4 is very much on.

Originally Posted by Kent Brockman

It's amazing how much expectations have been lowered in the space of a few years. I remember when finishing second was like the end of the world. Now, in the most winnable league in years, we're talking about how great it would be to scrape into the top 4.

It's not as easy now to win as it was a few years ago

Chelski and city can match if not beat us on wages plus we can't just cherry pick the players from the smaller clubs anymore as the TV money in the PL means as they don't have to sell to survive.
On top of that teams like Spurs and Southampton have decent sides

Originally Posted by marlo

i remember when we were not winning games in the champions league and the general consensus was they were not 'must win' games .....then when it caught up with us....it was stated that we werent good enough to win the champions league so doesnt matter when we get knocked out (group stages etc)

so what league finish in the league would be considered a failure by LGV?

should top 4 be the absolute minimum.

ideally you would think spending the money he spent in the summer, having a year to ship out the 'dead wood' a tame title challenge that fizzes out in late march would be the appropriate improvement on last seasons 4th place finish......

but anyway the goal post shifts so much for the dutch one so whats the new standard...

if we finish below 4th would that be a failure by LGV or is the poor squad (he assembled), scholes and rios bt sport curse et

Yes, it would be a failure to finish outside top 4. Don't think anyone's ever said otherwise.

Talking about moving goal posts... Those of you who seem to be unable to sleep at night while LVG is manager keep making shit up about those who have simply said he may need more time or that other factors may need to be remedied before ANY manager can make us dominate again.

Anyone who is 100% convinced Mourinho can just waltz in and immediately win the league and bring back fergie's dominance for however many years he stays probably needs to start a thread examining the parameters of reality.

Originally Posted by Ethers

What position? A few points away from it? Top 4 is very much on.

I don't think that's realistic. If City win today, we will be nine points off the top two, and eight off of top three. That's not simply 8/9 points they have to drop, but us going perfect from here til seasons end; off the back of our worst ever start to a prem season, and the worst trajectory in the whole league. We are one set of adverse results away from not being able to make top three, period.

That leaves one spot to aim for, which a very decent Spurs team currently have with five points in hand, and a bunch of lesser teams around us all in better form.

It's not impossible, but we need to do a 180, and we need to do it now. Our margin for draws and losses is now over.

Champions league, full houses and increased revenues.

Originally Posted by Kent Brockman

It's amazing how much expectations have been lowered in the space of a few years. I remember when finishing second was like the end of the world. Now, in the most winnable league in years, we're talking about how great it would be to scrape into the top 4.

Ah yes, but LvG is revolutionising our playing squad, and rebuilding the club from the ground up.

Realistically third behind Arsenal and City is the least we should expect - and they're not even that good.

Originally Posted by utd99

Top four is going to be hard from this position. Unlikely I'd say.

Originally Posted by Ethers

What position? A few points away from it? Top 4 is very much on.

What he said.

And I genuinely believe we'll turn it around big time over the next few games.

Those youngsters we were forced to field recently will be better for it when the next injury wave hits us. I'm convinced we'll strengthen in january.

Come on, Ethers. We're leaving.

Originally Posted by utd99

I don't think that's realistic. If City win today, we will be nine points off the top two, and eight off of top three. That's not simply 8/9 points they have to drop, but us going perfect from here til seasons end; off the back of our worst ever start to a prem season, and the worst trajectory in the whole league. We are one set of adverse results away from not being able to make top three, period.

That leaves one spot to aim for, which a very decent Spurs team currently have with five points in hand, and a bunch of lesser teams around us all in better form.

It's not impossible, but we need to do a 180, and we need to do it now. Our margin for draws and losses is now over.

You're not even taking into account the fact that the other 2 teams above us are Leicester and Palace. If city win tonight as you predict, it will also mean Leicester have lost 2 games in a row. Certainly not exactly unthinkable that either them or Palace can go on a run of form at least as bad as what we've just had is it?

Originally Posted by Cream

Come on, Ethers. We're leaving.

Originally Posted by utd99

Top four is going to be hard from this position. Unlikely I'd say.

The way the league is this season, it is eminently possible IF we put a run together. Yes, it is hard to see us doing such a thing at present - and *that* is the problem.

Originally Posted by Cream

With a transfer window approaching, there can be absolutely no excuses for finishing outside the top 4. That would be an all round failure where any sane observer would draw the line - especially with Chelsea out of the way.

I still believe we have a chance at finishing in the top 3 at least and frankly would expect nothing less.

All academic if a change of manager is being worked on as we speak.

yeah, you're right, because i think the lack of transfer activity so far is what is really affecting us...

that squad should be absolutely miles ahead in the league - we are gifted opportunity after opportunity every weekend at the moment with the way everyone in title race is slipping up.

something clearly is amiss and it's not the lack of transfers.

Originally Posted by Ethers

You're not even taking into account the fact that the other 2 teams above us are Leicester and Palace. If city win tonight as you predict, it will also mean Leicester have lost 2 games in a row. Certainly not exactly unthinkable that either them or Palace can go on a run of form at least as bad as what we've just had is it?

You're right, it's not unthinkable, I merely suggested it was unlikely. If city, arsenal and leicester are nine and eight points ahead of us, that's 8/9 we have to make up in addition to whatever we drop between now and the end of the season, which the first half would suggest will be a significant number. So unless you see some reason to think that we are about to emerge as the form team of 2016, we are most certainly on the cusp of being out of the top three already. Even if leicester drop points, it's more likely that Spurs clinch third and we get involved in a game of catch up with them for fourth.

This is failing to mention the possibility of any of the five teams around us, including Liverpool, going on a decent run.

It's unpleasant viewing, but it is how it is and we only have ourselves to blame. This last month has £#%&!ing killed us.

We are rebuilding, perhaps not well enough for some, but we are rebuilding.

Top 4 is a must, everything else is a bonus

Forget what we had under Fergie. With him, finishing second in the league and losing a CL final were catastrophies as we always expected to win everything. We all believed that no matter the opposition, Fergie would find a way.

It's not the same now and perhaps it won't ever be that way again, so we have to adjust our expectations... downwards unfortunately...

Originally Posted by elhombre

yeah, you're right, because i think the lack of transfer activity so far is what is really affecting us...

that squad should be absolutely miles ahead in the league - we are gifted opportunity after opportunity every weekend at the moment with the way everyone in title race is slipping up.

something clearly is amiss and it's not the lack of transfers.

Firstly, we have a small squad. So yes, a transfer our way wouldn't go amiss.

Secondly, if everybody in this title race is slipping up, how are we better placed than anyone else?

Yes, a little thought wouldn't go amiss before contradicting people.

Originally Posted by marlo

i remember when we were not winning games in the champions league and the general consensus was they were not 'must win' games .....then when it caught up with us....it was stated that we werent good enough to win the champions league so doesnt matter when we get knocked out (group stages etc)

so what league finish in the league would be considered a failure by LGV?

should top 4 be the absolute minimum.

ideally you would think spending the money he spent in the summer, having a year to ship out the 'dead wood' a tame title challenge that fizzes out in late march would be the appropriate improvement on last seasons 4th place finish......

but anyway the goal post shifts so much for the dutch one so whats the new standard...

if we finish below 4th would that be a failure by LGV or is the poor squad (he assembled), scholes and rios bt sport curse et

Go £#%&! yourself right in the face you £#%&!ing balloon headed oxygen thief

Originally Posted by Cream

Firstly, we have a small squad. So yes, a transfer our way wouldn't go amiss.

Secondly, if everybody in this title race is slipping up, how are we better placed than anyone else?

Yes, a little thought wouldn't go amiss before contradicting people.

So buying in more players will change the way we play?

No it won't.

We've got some £#%&!ing great attacking talent, we've got some decent signings done this season.

We're absolutely on our arses, with some horrific performances and results.

I do not accept a few more signings will herald a return to attacking football, for the foreseeable future at least.

Originally Posted by elhombre

So buying in more players will change the way we play?

No it won't.

We've got some £#%&!ing great attacking talent, we've got some decent signings done this season.

We're absolutely on our arses, with some horrific performances and results.

I do not accept a few more signings will herald a return to attacking football, for the foreseeable future at least.

Did you not watch the other night?

We need GOALZ and wide men who aren't Memphis or Mata.

Accept it.

When we win something will you post a picture of you and Samir in bed together

4th last season was just acceptable, let's not forget when the season commenced many thought we could get straight back to challenging for the title. I expected progress this year so obviously 3rd or better - The league is of poor standard at the top this year so failure to improve on last years position is a notable failure for me. I suspect he'll need to finish 4th to survive which sets the bar nice and low again, I can't see that though at all unless we catch Leicester after a collapse because Tottenham being the least erratic side up there are going from strength to strength and I really don't see City or Arsenal slipping to 5th either. I think we'll finish the season in 5th if we buy well next month, which would be pathetic. Outside of top 4?this year is inexcusable in my view.

Originally Posted by elhombre

I watched it.

I was very pleased with how we played.

But this was tempered by the fact chelsea are shit ATM and were setup to defend

Hiddink said that Chelski were "confident and ambitious" last night, though