Tottenham vs Manchester United : Official Match Thread : 11/4/21 4:30pm

Game’s in a weird place. Everyone hates var but FIFA are not in the business of backtracking on anything they implement.

Bitching managers brought this on themselves.

Originally Posted by puressence

just reading some of spurs #@&%!erel site forum wow

They Jose fans?

Originally Posted by utd99

Game’s in a weird place. Everyone hates var but FIFA are not in the business of backtracking on anything they implement.

Bitching managers brought this on themselves.

Var wouldn’t bother me if it was used correctly and in a similar way to the TMO in rugby

I think we should all be able to hear the conversation between the bloke in the var van and the ref too.

Obviously having competent officials is a massive problem in whether var is useful or not because as we saw yesterday they completely £#%&!ed it.

Originally Posted by AK14

Var wouldn’t bother me if it was used correctly and in a similar way to the TMO in rugby

I think we should all be able to hear the conversation between the bloke in the var van and the ref too.

Obviously having competent officials is a massive problem in whether var is useful or not because as we saw yesterday they completely £#%&!ed it.

It’s just impossible though; the game is too nuanced and too much of it is subjective. All we’ve done is exchange arguments about decisions for arguments about decisions with finer margins and sacrificed the game’s spirit in the process.

Originally Posted by utd99

It’s just impossible though; the game is too nuanced and too much of it is subjective. All we’ve done is exchange arguments about decisions for arguments about decisions with finer margins and sacrificed the game’s spirit in the process.

Offsides and mistaken identity, and even reviewing red card challanges to a degree I'm OK with. The first two are open and shut and not open to interpretation (although the offside rule itself could do with some tweaks). The third shouldn't really affect much. The Leeds one was a red card, thought it was soon as I saw the first replay, and they overturned the yellow and got it right thanks to VAR. There's always going to be some interpretation, but for the most part you don't see many players getting wrongly sent off thanks to VAR, and they do tend to err on the side of caution when using it for things like that.

But looking for any opportunity to disallow goals through stupid handballs and the shit we saw yesterday just takes the piss with it. The technology itself isn't bad, it's just the implementation of it is shite.

Originally Posted by Patty_b

Offsides and mistaken identity, and even reviewing red card challanges to a degree I'm OK with. The first two are open and shut and not open to interpretation (although the offside rule itself could do with some tweaks). The third shouldn't really affect much. The Leeds one was a red card, thought it was soon as I saw the first replay, and they overturned the yellow and got it right thanks to VAR. There's always going to be some interpretation, but for the most part you don't see many players getting wrongly sent off thanks to VAR, and they do tend to err on the side of caution when using it for things like that.

But looking for any opportunity to disallow goals through stupid handballs and the shit we saw yesterday just takes the piss with it. The technology itself isn't bad, it's just the implementation of it is shite.

And it always will be. There are more arguments now than there’s ever been, and when someone as honest as Ole uses the term ‘finished’ you know something’s wrong. The problem is that in attempting to use tech to get the right decision we’ve abandoned the common sense notion of human error being part of the game, so all we’re left with are mistakes with zero tolerance for them, and disrupted the flow of the game which is even worse.

Football has forever been a human game; humans playing, managing, officiating and watching, and humans make mistakes. Despite this it became far and away the most popular sport on the planet so we must have accepted it to some degree. No, this came about because of bitching, whining managers constantly looking for excuses for why their teams lost. It was never them, and they never mentioned decisions that went for them, just a constant tsunami of complaints about refs, refs, refs. They gave us this, and now they’re bitching more than ever.

Originally Posted by armchair

I plan on being asleep or lashing out wildly by 6:30pm. You can set your watches on that.

Update: Was asleep by 8pm and banned Jem from the thread,

Originally Posted by utd99

It’s just impossible though; the game is too nuanced and too much of it is subjective. All we’ve done is exchange arguments about decisions for arguments about decisions with finer margins and sacrificed the game’s spirit in the process.

This.

It works in cricket, tennis because it’s all pretty black and white. Lines and finite aspects.

Football has far too much subjectivity to be this forensic.

Even the concept of ‘clear and obvious’ is flawed. To who? We could agree on a decision but disagree on its obviousness.

And most importantly, as you say, it’s killing the spirit.

Originally Posted by Dr Stranger

This.

It works in cricket, tennis because it’s all pretty black and white. Lines and finite aspects.

Football has far too much subjectivity to be this forensic.

Even the concept of ‘clear and obvious’ is flawed. To who? We could agree on a decision but disagree on its obviousness.

And most importantly, as you say, it’s killing the spirit.

It's the commentators/pundits talking about offside that annnoys me.
"He's marginally offside".
No he £#%&!ing isn't. He's onside or offside. There are no degrees of offsideness. There's no bloody gradations. It's a simple binary choice. Onside/offside, yes/no.
Now shut up going on about it.

Originally Posted by AK14

Var wouldn’t bother me if it was used correctly and in a similar way to the TMO in rugby

this. it's not var that is the problem, but the idiots running it.

Originally Posted by utd99

The problem is that in attempting to use tech to get the right decision we’ve abandoned the common sense notion of human error being part of the game

not really. should be for helping the officials see something they didn't see. but the human error yesterday was still there when the ref reviewed the footage.

oddly, people are happy with the most objective aspect (offside... although maybe not so much with the law itself). whereas they should be banned from putting lines across the freeze frame - it should only be offside if it is clearly offside. toes are not clear.

Originally Posted by Halloween

They Jose fans?

https://thefightingcock.co.uk/forum/...ked-yet.39878/

Originally Posted by 92ToBury

https://thefightingcock.co.uk/forum/...ked-yet.39878/

Bottom of page 22 for the fallout from the match yesterday

Originally Posted by utd99

And it always will be. There are more arguments now than there’s ever been, and when someone as honest as Ole uses the term ‘finished’ you know something’s wrong. The problem is that in attempting to use tech to get the right decision we’ve abandoned the common sense notion of human error being part of the game, so all we’re left with are mistakes with zero tolerance for them, and disrupted the flow of the game which is even worse.

Football has forever been a human game; humans playing, managing, officiating and watching, and humans make mistakes. Despite this it became far and away the most popular sport on the planet so we must have accepted it to some degree. No, this came about because of bitching, whining managers constantly looking for excuses for why their teams lost. It was never them, and they never mentioned decisions that went for them, just a constant tsunami of complaints about refs, refs, refs. They gave us this, and now they’re bitching more than ever.

Spot on.

It's also turned many more footballers into play-acting cheats. Players that were previously inoffensive now clutching their face every five minutes, because they know there's a chance the ref might be taken in by it on the VAR screen, and absolutely zero chance they'll get done for feigning injury.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCAq0VN3mBk

Originally Posted by jem

not really. should be for helping the officials see something they didn't see. but the human error yesterday was still there when the ref reviewed the footage.

oddly, people are happy with the most objective aspect (offside... although maybe not so much with the law itself). whereas they should be banned from putting lines across the freeze frame - it should only be offside if it is clearly offside. toes are not clear.

Even offside is not objective. It should be, but it isn't; and var isn't helping referees, it's just making them second guess themselves when in most situations it appears their initial call was the correct one, ala yesterday.

Things are happening which could not have been anticipated ahead of implementation, such as referees being psychologically inclined to reverse decisions when the var tells them to check the monitor. suddenly they start seeing things that aren't there; how else to account for the ref being the only person in the entire country who thinks that's a foul on Son. Even £#%&!ing Mourinho didn't think it was a foul and he's the most one-eyed #@&%! in existence.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CNiMV_MBpYI/?utm_source=ig_embed

Originally Posted by Mr Kaboom

Give him a rest for 2 weeks, Granada tie should be over and it's Burnley next week. Let him loose at Leeds on the 25th

Remember what happened in that fixture last season, they still need points to be sure of staying up and we can't take them lightly.