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Unread 15-04-2015, 11:03 AM
Neo
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denis Irwell
Would've killed for a conversation like this on the footie specials coming back from aways in the 70s

"Eh Tommo, brilliant show from Daly today Wannit ?
Controlled the inside channels with McIlroy.

"Erm, Yeah, £#%&!in battered them c**kney @#%&!s at the station. Got some scarves here. Get us a pint, you can have one - £#%&!in Leeds @#%&!s next week"
You fookin' top fookin' red, pal.
 
Unread 15-04-2015, 11:07 AM
Semantic Lisp
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimson
Indeed, although this is a situation that generally speaking suits both sides. A well-organised defensive team wants to defend compactly to one side of the pitch, leaving the other open, even if an opposition player is in that space. More often than not, the sheer numbers and pressure will prevent successfully switching to the other side, but even if you do, they have time to shift when the ball is in the air.
Using wide players in tandem, focusing one side and exploiting the weak side is nothing new, especially to United. But for me we almost lost the art a few seasons back (after Ronaldo left, him notably scoring many times at the far post) when it became a constant ploy to use Valencia to tee Rooney up. It reached the stage where Rooney's first thought was to switch it wide right and although very successful in terms of goals for one season (but not in terms of overall team success), it soon became a comically predictable routine that they couldn't move on from, which was a shame not least because Valencia himself is more than capable of exploiting his being the weak side and that was all but lost.

What we're seeing with this current situation is different though. It's far more deliberate, far more clinical. The speed of it is almost all about the passing and interchange of positions rather than classic pace and giving it the field. It's about cutting through the spaces you've deliberately created, not just trying to catch a team napping. I like it a lot

And if it's not watching the players grow into the thing and realising that they actually have the nous to keep the ball, isolate individuals and draw the opponent out of their positions, then the best thing is the tempo and patience of it all. As you said, watching Herrera, Mata and Carrick operating like this is a real sight for sore eyes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Serenity Now
Absolutely. Defensively, you want to press in a wide position, because the vicinity of the sideline inherently narrows your opponent's options in a way that doesn't happen anywhere else on the pitch: get them right out on on the flank and they have very limited room for movement and can only play through at most 180 degrees - receiving the ball with incorrect body position, or from a badly angled pass, makes that much smaller. You have to shift over in order to both get numerical superiority around the ball and close off the immediate passing lanes or options. You're not worried about the direct pass to the other flank because, as you say, it's very difficult to make under pressure and, since it's a long pass, you have time to shift across anyway.


I agree on the quality of the players you mention, of course. It's just a shame Carrick isn't 4-5 years younger. Having a midfield pivot who can pass the ball through and over the opposition lines is so important. I fear that finding another one like him, with tactical intelligence, vision, and such an exceptional range of passing is going to be stupidly difficult
Interesting stuff. Especially excited about the passing patterns and intent at the moment, so if you cba I'm all ears for more. From my pov the bit I've emboldened has long been a major issue with United's passing all over the field - sloppy passing is such a waste of time and effort, and was one of the most frustrating things about United's play for a few years now. I used to put much of it down to Fletcher, but obviously he was a product of United's youth system (which Welbeck aside has produced very little itself for a decade other than defenders). It was safety-first dross, which so often meant the receiver with his back to the game, facing his own goal - passing designed not to draw an opponent in but to discourage him from committing. It was basically an attempt to 'cheat' to get the receiver time on the ball rather than use technique I suppose, but it showed a lack of direction...

The current regime have turned that around, no doubt with endless hours of repetitions, and well inside a single season they are on top of it.
 
Unread 15-04-2015, 12:50 PM
Denis Irwell
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo
You fookin' top fookin' red, pal.
Tommo was - sort of

:shakehead:
 
Unread 15-04-2015, 12:54 PM
believe
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo
You fookin' top fookin' red, pal.
it's certainly no singing United songs in Lime street station.
 
Unread 15-04-2015, 02:19 PM
Grimson
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Serenity Now
Absolutely.

Also, on rather a different note, is it true that the NCAA only allows two hours of work with the ball per week during the off-season? And, if it is, what on earth is the reasoning there?
It's true. The (tenuous) reasoning is to curtail American football law abuses. They are allowed a further six hours of strength, conditioning, agility etc work. That should be reversed, obviously.:shakehead:
 
Unread 15-04-2015, 03:28 PM
Neo
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by believe
it's certainly no singing United songs in Lime street station.
I know, pol. I know. Halcyon days.

Over a year ago now.

#MoyesIn.
 
Unread 15-04-2015, 03:30 PM
Sparky***
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Serenity Now

Also, on rather a different note, is it true that the NCAA only allows two hours of work with the ball per week during the off-season? And, if it is, what on earth is the reasoning there?
Because NFL requires £#%&! all actual skill to play it. It's just raw athleticism.
 
Unread 15-04-2015, 03:49 PM
jem
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky***
Because NFL requires £#%&! all actual skill to play it. It's just raw athleticism.
 
Unread 15-04-2015, 06:46 PM
dunk
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimson
It's true. The (tenuous) reasoning is to curtail American football law abuses. They are allowed a further six hours of strength, conditioning, agility etc work. That should be reversed, obviously.:shakehead:
such as?
 
Unread 15-04-2015, 07:17 PM
Grimson
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dunk
such as?
Buying cars for recruits
Giving their parents jobs
Allowing donors to pay off mortgages
...more specifically to the rule Sers mentions, to prevent them having athletes in training/film study etc for 10 hours a day...
etc
etc
 
Unread 15-04-2015, 08:25 PM
dunk
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimson
Buying cars for recruits
Giving their parents jobs
Allowing donors to pay off mortgages
...more specifically to the rule Sers mentions, to prevent them having athletes in training/film study etc for 10 hours a day...
etc
etc
Ahh..

Still, you think they'd want them with the ball more than any other aspect of training, for those that ever actually touch the ball anyway.
 
Unread 15-04-2015, 09:28 PM
King Eric
 
Default We are back.

I don't know what's happened, but when we've played the other top sides this year, we've upped our game and shows me we are close to being as good as we were under SAF. Two, or three real top stars in the summer, maybe Ronnie back, or even Bale and we will be as good as any team in Europe.
 
Unread 15-04-2015, 09:30 PM
elhombre
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by King Eric
I don't know what's happened, but when we've played the other top sides this year, we've upped our game and shows me we are close to being as good as we were under SAF. Two, or three real top stars in the summer, maybe Ronnie back, or even Bale and we will be as good as any team in Europe.
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