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Unread 25-05-2022, 12:53 PM
jem
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buck
Adults who want no regulation on guns because they say it would infringe on their "freedom" but their kids should grow up with having police presence at school . It's one total contradiction.
it depends what you mean. security brings freedom. to the extent there is a contradiction, it is inherent in the concept of freedom for all.
 
Unread 25-05-2022, 01:01 PM
marlo
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethers
Got a 5 year old daughter and never heard of this either, although they did have a sheep on the football field the other day which she was buzzing about
because he is lying.

What is said is absolute rubbish.
 
Unread 25-05-2022, 01:14 PM
windy waffles
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by marlo
because he is lying.

What is said is absolute rubbish.


This guy...

Yes I am making it up despite there being ample evidence of being done in other schools...

Oh and here it is from my local council:

https://www.surreycc.gov.uk/__data/a...eb-version.pdf

You stupid c***.
 
Unread 25-05-2022, 01:23 PM
AK14
 
Default

Just read about his old man who was a school teacher and murdered while working in the UAE.
 
Unread 25-05-2022, 01:31 PM
ScarFace
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by windy waffles
I don't know about others in the UK but at my 5 year old daughter's school, they have 'drills' where they have to hide in the toilets because 'an animal is outside'.
 
Unread 25-05-2022, 02:54 PM
Dasilvatwins
 
Default

Such a horrific thing . I canít imagine what the parents must be going through.

WRT to sorting it all out , I feel like it cannot be done unless it happens gradually through generations.

You have the people in power , senators etc who are lobbied and backed by corporations like the NRA. Who are solely in place for themselves and nobody else.

Then you have the culture change thatís required, what do you do with people with existing guns? To what extent are checks made? Even if tomorrow you put a blanket ban on guns Iím sure it wouldnít be difficult to get one on the black market there .

On top of that is the chaos people will cause if the first two points happen, if senators do try to put in restrictions and physically actions are carried out . Every country has idiots, America is so big the number of idiots is vast, you canít have millions of idiots with guns being told one day we are taking them off you . Thereís no educating the generation(s) above.

Banning guns wonít change too much , even getting people to give them up. I feel the ones who would give them up are probably the ďsane ď ones.

Itís a huge issue in their society that will decades to change through education reform. This also is dependent on the people in power actually caring and putting their foot down on several things. Even then , governments change from one set of views to another every decade or so , strong chance rules and laws will just be repealed and put in place . It wonít be given enough time to have an impact.

I havenít even gotten to their constitution , right to bare arms etc. as sad as it is, gun culture is so integrated in America it cannot be controlled or removed to the required extent. ( unless you have some mad dictator come into power who has sole control but we obv donít want that to happen )
 
Unread 25-05-2022, 03:43 PM
Fat Al
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dasilvatwins
Such a horrific thing . I canít imagine what the parents must be going through.

WRT to sorting it all out , I feel like it cannot be done unless it happens gradually through generations.

You have the people in power , senators etc who are lobbied and backed by corporations like the NRA. Who are solely in place for themselves and nobody else.

Then you have the culture change thatís required, what do you do with people with existing guns? To what extent are checks made? Even if tomorrow you put a blanket ban on guns Iím sure it wouldnít be difficult to get one on the black market there .

On top of that is the chaos people will cause if the first two points happen, if senators do try to put in restrictions and physically actions are carried out . Every country has idiots, America is so big the number of idiots is vast, you canít have millions of idiots with guns being told one day we are taking them off you . Thereís no educating the generation(s) above.

Banning guns wonít change too much , even getting people to give them up. I feel the ones who would give them up are probably the ďsane ď ones.

Itís a huge issue in their society that will decades to change through education reform. This also is dependent on the people in power actually caring and putting their foot down on several things. Even then , governments change from one set of views to another every decade or so , strong chance rules and laws will just be repealed and put in place . It wonít be given enough time to have an impact.

I havenít even gotten to their constitution , right to bare arms etc. as sad as it is, gun culture is so integrated in America it cannot be controlled or removed to the required extent. ( unless you have some mad dictator come into power who has sole control but we obv donít want that to happen )
It's the second amendment to the constitution. If the constitution can be amended to include the right to bear arms, then it can be amended again to remove the right.
Unfortunately, Americans are so wedded to this right, it would probably cause a civil war if attempts were made to forcibly remove those weapons.

The actual wording is ďa well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.Ē

I wouldn't think that Cleetus J. Tinypecker & his sisters/wives/cousins/dads/uncles/brothers living in their fortified compound in Buttf***, Alabama is what you'd call a 'well regulated militia' but if they want to own 5-10 military grade automatic weapons each for 'home defence', then it appears they have a constitutional right to do so.
 
Unread 25-05-2022, 03:44 PM
armchair
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Al
It's the second amendment to the constitution. If the constitution can be amended to include the right to bear arms, then it can be amended again to remove the right.
How would they do that, Al?
 
Unread 25-05-2022, 03:52 PM
Fat Al
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by armchair
How would they do that, Al?
With great difficulty. There is a legal framework for it to happen but it is almost useless.

My point was more that the right to bear arms wasn't part of the original constitution. It's an amendment. A change.
 
Unread 25-05-2022, 04:05 PM
atticusgrinch
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Al
With great difficulty. There is a legal framework for it to happen but it is almost useless.

My point was more that the right to bear arms wasn't part of the original constitution. It's an amendment. A change.
Is it not 2/3 of the Senate to amend the constitution?

It's something like that.
 
Unread 25-05-2022, 04:09 PM
Fat Al
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by atticusgrinch
Is it not 2/3 of the Senate to amend the constitution?

It's something like that.
Article V of the United States Constitution outlines basic procedures for constitutional amendment.

Congress may submit a proposed constitutional amendment to the states, if the proposed amendment language is approved by a two-thirds vote of both houses.
Congress must call a convention for proposing amendments upon application of the legislatures of two-thirds of the states (i.e., 34 of 50 states).
Amendments proposed by Congress or convention become valid only when ratified by the legislatures of, or conventions in, three-fourths of the states (i.e., 38 of 50 states).
 
Unread 25-05-2022, 04:11 PM
windy waffles
 
Default

It's never, EVER going to happen.
 
Unread 25-05-2022, 04:13 PM
armchair
 
Default

https://constitutionus.com/constitut...al-amendments/

This is the big step after it's out of washington:
Quote:
Any proposed amendment must be ratified by three-fourths of the states. Finally, if enough states approveĖand thatís a big ifĖthe Archivist of the US government issues an official announcement that the amendment has passed and is now part of the United States Constitution.
 
Unread 25-05-2022, 04:17 PM
Patty_b
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dasilvatwins
Such a horrific thing . I canít imagine what the parents must be going through.

WRT to sorting it all out , I feel like it cannot be done unless it happens gradually through generations.

You have the people in power , senators etc who are lobbied and backed by corporations like the NRA. Who are solely in place for themselves and nobody else.

Then you have the culture change thatís required, what do you do with people with existing guns? To what extent are checks made? Even if tomorrow you put a blanket ban on guns Iím sure it wouldnít be difficult to get one on the black market there .

On top of that is the chaos people will cause if the first two points happen, if senators do try to put in restrictions and physically actions are carried out . Every country has idiots, America is so big the number of idiots is vast, you canít have millions of idiots with guns being told one day we are taking them off you . Thereís no educating the generation(s) above.

Banning guns wonít change too much , even getting people to give them up. I feel the ones who would give them up are probably the ďsane ď ones.

Itís a huge issue in their society that will decades to change through education reform. This also is dependent on the people in power actually caring and putting their foot down on several things. Even then , governments change from one set of views to another every decade or so , strong chance rules and laws will just be repealed and put in place . It wonít be given enough time to have an impact.

I havenít even gotten to their constitution , right to bare arms etc. as sad as it is, gun culture is so integrated in America it cannot be controlled or removed to the required extent. ( unless you have some mad dictator come into power who has sole control but we obv donít want that to happen )
All the points you raise are valid concerns which need to be addressed, except the highlighted one, which is complete nonsense.

A lot of these types of shootings are undertaken by young men who legally aquire their guns. Now if there is a ban on guns, or the types of guns used to carry out atrocities such as yesterdays, then how would these young men legally get hold of them?

Even if he knows someone who still owns the guns legally by purchasing them before any sort of ban, it's going to raise some eyebrows if this lad says he wants to borrow the gun, several hundred rounds of ammunition and a bullet proof vest for a couple of days. Not to mention that if someone was the legally registered owner of a weapon, they'd be culpable if they let someone else get their hands on it who then commited a crime.

Would any sort of ban on guns stop all sort of atrocities commited by a k*******s with a gun? No.

Would it instantly change things for the better, and be a start to what is much needed gun control? Absolutely.
 
Unread 25-05-2022, 04:17 PM
armchair
 
Default

Quote:
Approximately 11,770 proposals to amend the Constitution have been introduced in Congress since 1789 (as of January 3, 2019).[4][7] Collectively, members of the House and Senate typically propose around 200 amendments during each two-year term of Congress.[8] Proposals have covered numerous topics, but none made in recent decades have become part of the Constitution. Historically, most died in the congressional committees to which they were assigned. Since 1999, only about 20 proposed amendments have received a vote by either the full House or Senate. The last time a proposal gained the necessary two-thirds support in both the House and the Senate for submission to the states was the District of Columbia Voting Rights Amendment in 1978. Only 16 states had ratified it when the seven-year time limit expired
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...Constituti on
 
Unread 25-05-2022, 04:17 PM
Dasilvatwins
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by armchair
https://constitutionus.com/constitut...al-amendments/

This is the big step after it's out of washington:
No way are theyíre going to amend the constitution . Even if every senator agreed on the subject . Politics over there (much like everywhere else tbh) is polarised. These guys will not ever want to work together out of principal that they are the opposition party. That and a few hundred million in bank accounts prevents them from going against the grain
 
Unread 25-05-2022, 04:20 PM
Fat Al
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by armchair
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dasilvatwins
No way are theyíre going to amend the constitution . Even if every senator agreed on the subject . Politics over there (much like everywhere else tbh) is polarised. These guys will not ever want to work together out of principal that they are the opposition party. That and a few hundred million in bank accounts prevents them from going against the grain
This is an interesting article on the subject:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/04/o...stitution.html
 
Unread 25-05-2022, 04:23 PM
Dasilvatwins
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patty_b
All the points you raise are valid concerns which need to be addressed, except the highlighted one, which is complete nonsense.

A lot of these types of shootings are undertaken by young men who legally aquire their guns. Now if there is a ban on guns, or the types of guns used to carry out atrocities such as yesterdays, then how would these young men legally get hold of them?

Even if he knows someone who still owns the guns legally by purchasing them before any sort of ban, it's going to raise some eyebrows if this lad says he wants to borrow the gun, several hundred rounds of ammunition and a bullet proof vest for a couple of days. Not to mention that if someone was the legally registered owner of a weapon, they'd be culpable if they let someone else get their hands on it who then commited a crime.

Would any sort of ban on guns stop all sort of atrocities commited by a k*******s with a gun? No.

Would it instantly change things for the better, and be a start to what is much needed gun control? Absolutely.
I think it will help a bit but youíd still get loads of shootings. The nutters will find ways to obtain guns I mean in an illegal manager. It wonít be difficult , as easy as buying drugs are over there .

. Then there are state by state laws etc etc . Plus an instant ban would almost certainly cause uproar in large enough numbers for politicians to want to play politics. Then all you need is ď we told your theyíre taking the guns off youĒ trump or some other d***head voted in and theyíre back to square one.

Itís very very slim for things to change but itís going to be decades of society and education reform. I think a sitting party (itís only ever one of the two) will ever continue to pursue the agenda. Too much money, indoctrination , stubbornness and selfishness will prevent it. Maybe at best states can make their own law, the states leaning towards the left may be able to pass control. Even then , nothing stopping someone going to the next state picking a gun up and coming back .
 
Unread 25-05-2022, 04:24 PM
tatty
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dasilvatwins
, right to bare arms etc. as sad as it is,
This doesn't seem unreasonable.
 
Unread 25-05-2022, 04:24 PM
Dasilvatwins
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Al
This is an interesting article on the subject:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/04/o...stitution.html
The people in power wouldnt really want to change the constitution anyway. I think they feed of patriotism so much more than over here and itís used to get people blindly following . The politicians benefit too much from the control they have .

Quote:
Originally Posted by tatty
This doesn't seem unreasonable.
Oh my point was that you wonít get them to change the constitution. If by their constitution they have a right to bare arms thatís staying. So a blanket ban just would never happen
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