Germany youth development

Originally Posted by Sloane

plus the keeper now would be second choice anyway if it wasnt for injury.

Third.

Originally Posted by red in cumbria

Nail on head (esp the bold bit) - why can't all your posts be as good??

Even in 1990 and 96, England didn't play *that* well really - save for the few games we all fondly remember

well, who will people hate though then

makes me laugh this place does

this time last year, when i was pointing at bayern as the flagship of a great league and pointing at my behind the scenes first hand experience as evidence of their superb set-up, people on here said bayern were the antipathy of a well run club, they laughed at the very idea that they were ahead of the game in terms of the way football ought to be run

i may still be pretty much a lone voice in these parts in pointing out what i see as the idiocy and cluelessness of those who'd happily be rescued from the glazer's seedy clutches by different scum from the same hedgefund/finance industry trough as are bleeding us £#%&!ing dry at the moment. but i welcome this pro-bundesliga development

incidentally i know very well that a lot of people have long since pointed at the bundesliga when advocating safe standing, but that's a separate issue. it would also be wrong not to point out that a lot of bundesliga match-goers are pretty unhappy at recent ticket price rise developments.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

makes me laugh this place does

this time last year, when i was pointing at bayern as the flagship of a great league and pointing at my behind the scenes first hand experience as evidence of their superb set-up, people on here said bayern were the antipathy of a well run club, they laughed at the very idea that they were ahead of the game in terms of the way football ought to be run

i may still be pretty much a lone voice in these parts in pointing out what i see as the idiocy and cluelessness of those who'd happily be rescued from the glazer's seedy clutches by different scum from the same hedgefund/finance industry trough as are bleeding us £#%&!ing dry at the moment. but i welcome this pro-bundesliga development

incidentally i know very well that a lot of people have long since pointed at the bundesliga when advocating safe standing, but that's a separate issue. it would also be wrong not to point out that a lot of bundesliga match-goers are pretty unhappy at recent ticket price rise developments.

You do a lot of pointing, in fairness.

Originally Posted by Grimson

You do a lot of pointing, in fairness.

Originally Posted by Grimson

You do a lot of pointing, in fairness.

hopefully someone can knock the spanish out next, and maybe we'll even get a holland germany final. the english media won't know whose grass roots system to £#%&! over the most. no matter though, looks like the mistakes they both make on the pitch won't matter cus the referee will have a lifetime's supply of free trophy safari trips for his friends and family and that @#%&! van bommel will lift the cup. oh and i'll collect my winnings. come on holland

Yeah but that Dutch sytem, second to none...

Originally Posted by Sloane

good article how they actually dealt with the problem of too many foreigners and how the bundesliga and the national team were suffering.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...ion/index.html

not sure if i am allowed to copy and paste the whole article

Er, that doesn't say anything about 'dealing with the problem of too many foreigners' - professional clubs creating youth academies is the minimum I'd expect.

It's right in that taking the cash cow away from clubs directly benefits the growth of home-grown talent. But how on earth can you make that out to be some sort of deliberate plan? Getting rid of expensive foreigners because of a collapsed TV deal is being reactive, not proactive.

The same'd happen here, except Sky are a lot better run than Kirch & better backed, so it won't. So in the mean time, Premiership clubs will continue to spend £4m on some random Ghanaian to have an immediate effect rather than invest the 20-30 games it takes to blood a young Englishman. All the 'talent centres' and technical coaching in the world isn't going to change that.

Originally Posted by MrBishi

So in the mean time, Premiership clubs will continue to spend £4m on some random Ghanaian to have an immediate effect rather than invest the 20-30 games it takes to blood a young Englishman. All the 'talent centres' and technical coaching in the world isn't going to change that.

And in the meantime, a number of fans write off young players when they've made literally one start in a whole season.

Originally Posted by MrBishi

Er, that doesn't say anything about 'dealing with the problem of too many foreigners' - professional clubs creating youth academies is the minimum I'd expect.

It's right in that taking the cash cow away from clubs directly benefits the growth of home-grown talent. But how on earth can you make that out to be some sort of deliberate plan? Getting rid of expensive foreigners because of a collapsed TV deal is being reactive, not proactive.

The same'd happen here, except Sky are a lot better run than Kirch & better backed, so it won't. So in the mean time, Premiership clubs will continue to spend £4m on some random Ghanaian to have an immediate effect rather than invest the 20-30 games it takes to blood a young Englishman. All the 'talent centres' and technical coaching in the world isn't going to change that.

Originally Posted by Zorg

And in the meantime, a number of fans write off young players when they've made literally one start in a whole season.

great points lads

Originally Posted by MrBishi

Er, that doesn't say anything about 'dealing with the problem of too many foreigners' - professional clubs creating youth academies is the minimum I'd expect.

It's right in that taking the cash cow away from clubs directly benefits the growth of home-grown talent. But how on earth can you make that out to be some sort of deliberate plan? Getting rid of expensive foreigners because of a collapsed TV deal is being reactive, not proactive.

The same'd happen here, except Sky are a lot better run than Kirch & better backed, so it won't. So in the mean time, Premiership clubs will continue to spend £4m on some random Ghanaian to have an immediate effect rather than invest the 20-30 games it takes to blood a young Englishman. All the 'talent centres' and technical coaching in the world isn't going to change that.

what i meant was they got back to putting more effort into developing youth german football, and from what i understand it has made the level of foreign players drop from 60% to 50% now.
it was definetly reactive i agree and that collapse was not deliberate but it did wake them up and they realised what they should be doing.
i know sky are not going to collapse and during that time english clubs are not going to change that dramatically with their approach but still there is a lot of improvment that can be done on english youth talent if its done right

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

makes me laugh this place does

this time last year, when i was pointing at bayern as the flagship of a great league and pointing at my behind the scenes first hand experience as evidence of their superb set-up, people on here said bayern were the antipathy of a well run club, they laughed at the very idea that they were ahead of the game in terms of the way football ought to be run

i may still be pretty much a lone voice in these parts in pointing out what i see as the idiocy and cluelessness of those who'd happily be rescued from the glazer's seedy clutches by different scum from the same hedgefund/finance industry trough as are bleeding us £#%&!ing dry at the moment. but i welcome this pro-bundesliga development

incidentally i know very well that a lot of people have long since pointed at the bundesliga when advocating safe standing, but that's a separate issue. it would also be wrong not to point out that a lot of bundesliga match-goers are pretty unhappy at recent ticket price rise developments.

don't remember any of that tbph, throb. i've been an unabashed fan of the bundesliga for ages and i don't remember you saying much about it other than as a way of having a go at barca for some reason or other. maybe i just missed all the lone voice in the wilderness stuff though.

Originally Posted by Zorg

And in the meantime, a number of fans write off young players when they've made literally one start in a whole season.

was making the same point this very morning on the 'current squad' thread.

Originally Posted by borsuk

don't remember any of that tbph, throb. i've been an unabashed fan of the bundesliga for ages and i don't remember you saying much about it other than as a way of having a go at barca for some reason or other. maybe i just missed all the lone voice in the wilderness stuff though.

i think some people on here know i've a soft spot for bayern and munich in general tbh, and always have had

some will probably recall me banging on about jose sosa for example over the last few years

there were quite a few conversations on here during last season's run-in and the klinnsman saga

seem to recall you in particular stating that bayern were not a well run club actually

no doubt appletango could be arsed to dig out the quotes; not my bag tbh


if you'd like a nice conversation weaving in Bayern and the spanish giants Real and Barca i'd be happy to offer my tuppence, of course

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

seem to recall you in particular stating that bayern were not a well run club actually

er... no. i have said bayern are @#%&!s, which is true, and i may have said that they are arrogant and disdainful towards other clubs (also true), or that they exploit their position as the pre-eminent club in distasteful ways (true again). i much prefer stuttgart, cologne or hamburg, for example. but i've never said bayern munich is not well run. quite the opposite, in fact.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

makes me laugh this place does

this time last year, when i was pointing at bayern as the flagship of a great league and pointing at my behind the scenes first hand experience as evidence of their superb set-up, people on here said bayern were the antipathy of a well run club, they laughed at the very idea that they were ahead of the game in terms of the way football ought to be run

i may still be pretty much a lone voice in these parts in pointing out what i see as the idiocy and cluelessness of those who'd happily be rescued from the glazer's seedy clutches by different scum from the same hedgefund/finance industry trough as are bleeding us £#%&!ing dry at the moment. but i welcome this pro-bundesliga development

incidentally i know very well that a lot of people have long since pointed at the bundesliga when advocating safe standing, but that's a separate issue. it would also be wrong not to point out that a lot of bundesliga match-goers are pretty unhappy at recent ticket price rise developments.

ooh look at me

Originally Posted by Sloane

it was definetly reactive i agree and that collapse was not deliberate but it did wake them up and they realised what they should be doing.

If the Bundesliga got a new TV deal the same as ours, the clubs'd end up doing exactly the same as us. Any sort of morals or gentlemen's agreements will go out the window.

Originally Posted by borsuk

er... no. i have said bayern are @#%&!s, which is true, and i may have said that they are arrogant and disdainful towards other clubs (also true), or that they exploit their position as the pre-eminent club in distasteful ways (true again). i much prefer stuttgart, cologne or hamburg, for example. but i've never said bayern munich is not well run. quite the opposite, in fact.

well maybe you have maybe you haven't. either way, what you say here is basically no different to the accusations bandied around in england over the past few decades that now form the essence of abu-ism.

and yes obviously some of that has been largely offset within the game itself by the way Ferguson conducts himself with absolute respect for [most] other clubs in the game. not that that did much until very recently to prevent block voting against big bad arrogant disdainful manchester united though, of course.

Originally Posted by thenorthwillriseagain

ooh look at me

hi

Originally Posted by MrBishi

If the Bundesliga got a new TV deal the same as ours, the clubs'd end up doing exactly the same as us. Any sort of morals or gentlemen's agreements will go out the window.

hmm, definitely some ring of truth to that. not sure they'd be quite so cut-throat about £#%&!ing each other over at the expense of the game over all. definitely not sure they'd tolerate so many mercenaries as we have here either. it's unlikely the german supporters would be prepared to bankroll the wages of a group like the current united squad the way we do, let alone the type of squads they have at chelsea or even city for that matter - £44 quid in to watch that at city? 60 quid in at some bits of arsenal isn't it? £#%&! that shit. could be wrong though, and maybe there would be a bit of 1993 style giddyness if they were suddenly all dripping with cash. you look at england 17 years on and listen to the way the modern-day fan talks about spending 30m quid and throwing 120k a week at anything that moves and you have to think that english culture is a bit different to german culture though - surely to £#%&! they wouldn't put up with all that shite would they?

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

well maybe you have maybe you haven't. either way, what you say here is basically no different to the accusations bandied around in england over the past few decades that now form the essence of abu-ism.

any accusations of this kind against a pre-eminent club are going to be similar. the question is whether they are true or not. i would argue that while the fa generally takes an anti-united stance the german football authorities are very much pro-bayern.

hmm, definitely some ring of truth to that. not sure they'd be quite so cut-throat about £#%&!ing each other over at the expense of the game over all. definitely not sure they'd tolerate so many mercenaries as we have here either. it's unlikely the german supporters would be prepared to bankroll the wages of a group like the current united squad the way we do, let alone the type of squads they have at chelsea or even city for that matter - £44 quid in to watch that at city? 60 quid in at some bits of arsenal isn't it? £#%&! that shit. could be wrong though, and maybe there would be a bit of 1993 style giddyness if they were suddenly all dripping with cash. you look at england 17 years on and listen to the way the modern-day fan talks about spending 30m quid and throwing 120k a week at anything that moves and you have to think that english culture is a bit different to german culture though - surely to £#%&! they wouldn't put up with all that shite would they?

there are deeper differences in german society, where ostentatious shows of wealth are frowned upon and there is a much greater sense of community. and the game is far better run by far better people than in the uk, simply.