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Unread 05-07-2010, 02:54 PM
S/Side.Red
 
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Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb
schweinsteiger has grown up and become a smart team player. i doubt too many top class sides have ever allowed him to dribble into the box like the malvinas did the other day
True enough.

As discussed many times on the forum, Maradona went into the tournament too light on central midfield options, and I think it cost him big time against Germany. He seems to think that as long as he has Mascherano, they won't get overrun in the middle of the pitch, even if he's there on his own against three or four players.
 
Unread 05-07-2010, 03:07 PM
Tumescent Throb
 
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Originally Posted by borsuk
couldn't agree less with that bit. ozil has been great, very creative and a real threat, but mueller and podolski's tactical intelligence has stood out. they've given a masterclass in how to play the role of widish support striker - both sides of a three.
i certainly agree about podolski but certainly not for the reasons you state.

loew's tactics centre around a high line in essentially a fluid 4-5-1 that easily switches to 4-4-2 and back. it is a modern tweak on 4-4-2 designed to help move defences and to compensate against packed midfields. it is almost the model of United at their best imo. and not dissimilarly the lone frontman option is generally the german squad's weakest option; it comes alive because they are able to get say ozil through to support. this is a big part of the thinking behind Podolski's starting position to the left. it relies on pace and it works because it asks the opposition defence querstions that they simply don't want to answer, see the very poor attempt england made to combat it in the 1st half and the utter shambles argentina were quickly reduced to. i was reminded very much of United in their 1994 pomp by some of the german's matador passing in the second half the other day. the pulse of 4-4-2 at its finest lives on, and we should all be thankful. i believe that next season we might all see the benefits of the phenomenon S/Side spoke of in his post above, ie coaches immitating successful formulas.

as an aside, it is worth pointing out that not unlike rooney and ronaldo klose and podolski simply have a superb understanding and a combination that effectively reduces tactics to bit part details in the bigger picture at any given key moment.
 
Unread 05-07-2010, 04:15 PM
Baron
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by borsuk
couldn't agree less with that bit. ozil has been great, very creative and a real threat, but mueller and podolski's tactical intelligence has stood out. they've given a masterclass in how to play the role of widish support striker - both sides of a three.
Again... you're quoting out of context Borsurs....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Me
Mueller has been excellent given his goal scoring, but his passing & tactical discipline in comparison to Ozil isn't there.
See where you have bolded... read the next bit.

Mueller has been great, but in talking about Ozil as player of the tournament, I advised Mueller's tactical discipline hasn't been on a par with him. Not that he hasn't got tactical discipline. That's because Ozil has a free role, the link between attack & midfield, and the wide players. As good as Mueller has been Ozil runs the show, dictating where the others go, and at what speed. Mueller has to be in the right place, at the right time. A difficult skill, but to create those opportunities, it's been Ozil time & time again with the killer pass, the decoy run, or even just holding his position to create space. It's £#%&!ing brilliant watching a 21 year old doing everything right almost all of the time at this level.
 
Unread 05-07-2010, 06:21 PM
borsuk
 
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Originally Posted by Baron_van_Marlon
Again... you're quoting out of context Borsurs....
no, i read what you posted and i wasn't changing the meaning, just disagreeing. good as ozil has been, mueller and podolski have given tactical masterclasses imo. imo, of course. ozil's role has been far freer, requiring vision and individual ability, but not a great deal of tactical discipline.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb
i certainly agree about podolski but certainly not for the reasons you state.
your obsession with 4-4-2 (or just 2 up front, really) knows no bounds.

a) germany haven't played two up front, they've played three behind one, with plenty of movement like any good side. far from 'the pulse of 4-4-2', their success has been a demonstration of why that formation at the top level is heading the way of the w-m
b) germany's wins over england and argentina - in fact their performances in the tournament as a whole - have everything to do with superb tactics and a team playing as a team with intelligence, athleticism and discipline.
c) what the £#%&! is matador passing?
 
Unread 05-07-2010, 06:25 PM
dunk
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by borsuk
no, i read what you posted and i wasn't changing the meaning, just disagreeing. good as ozil has been, mueller and podolski have given tactical masterclasses imo. imo, of course. ozil's role has been far freer, requiring vision and individual ability, but not a great deal of tactical discipline.


your obsession with 4-4-2 (or just 2 up front, really) knows no bounds.

a) germany haven't played two up front, they've played three behind one, with plenty of movement like any good side. far from 'the pulse of 4-4-2', their success has been a demonstration of why that formation at the top level is heading the way of the w-m
b) germany's wins over england and argentina - in fact their performances in the tournament as a whole - have everything to do with superb tactics and a team playing as a team with intelligence, athleticism and discipline.
c) what the £#%&! is matador passing?
When the crowd shouts OLE! after each touch of the ball.
 
Unread 05-07-2010, 06:31 PM
borsuk
 
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Originally Posted by dunk
When the crowd shouts OLE! after each touch of the ball.
oh dear
 
Unread 05-07-2010, 06:33 PM
dunk
 
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Originally Posted by borsuk
oh dear
 
Unread 05-07-2010, 06:35 PM
borsuk
 
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Originally Posted by dunk
anybody who shouts 'ole' deserves a smack imo. they probably think mexican waves are good fun as well, the £#%&!ers.
 
Unread 05-07-2010, 06:36 PM
dunk
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by borsuk
anybody who shouts 'ole' deserves a smack imo. they probably think mexican waves are good fun as well, the £#%&!ers.
Throb seems to like it
 
Unread 05-07-2010, 06:38 PM
borsuk
 
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Originally Posted by dunk
Throb seems to like it
only 'cos nobody else does
 
Unread 05-07-2010, 06:56 PM
dunk
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by borsuk
only 'cos nobody else does
Fact.
 
Unread 05-07-2010, 10:26 PM
Tumescent Throb
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by borsuk

a) germany haven't played two up front, they've played three behind one, with plenty of movement like any good side. far from 'the pulse of 4-4-2', their success has been a demonstration of why that formation at the top level is heading the way of the w-m
b) germany's wins over england and argentina - in fact their performances in the tournament as a whole - have everything to do with superb tactics and a team playing as a team with intelligence, athleticism and discipline.
c) what the £#%&! is matador passing?
no, i disagree. their base is a high line and a fluid interchange of positions as I explained above. this 3 behind 1 line is a fantasy, but i call that 4-5-1 anyway, so there you go. it is refreshing to see their adaptations, and i hope that they retain a similar outlook for the spain game and force the spanish to find the answer - hopefully their answer will be biscuits and they will lose.


matador passing is a form of piss-take involving riding dangerous lunging tackles from seriously wound up opposition who are being given the runaround with a bit of showboating and some simple boxes. it has absolutely nothing to do with any sky fan @#%&! in the crowd shouting ole.
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