How much do you miss the European Cup

Originally Posted by Tiberian

Badly needed, Barca, Real, Bayern with Atletico over achieving was getting a little stale. Need one of the Milan clubs in that top echelon and for the PL teams to hold their own.

Doubt we will ever get the likes of Ajax back as a consistent competitive force with the current structure. Crying shame that for one of the historic clubs.

Bayern weren't really over-acheiving, they've won one champions league title in 15 years...the competition was being completely dominated and imho ruined a little bit by Barcelona and Madrid. It was the same old story every year, watching Europe's best competition turned into a marketing platform for Ronaldo, Messi and Neymar.

2009 Barcelona
2010 Inter
2011 Barcelona
2012 Chelsea
2013 Bayern
2014 Madrid
2015 Barcelona
2016 Madrid

The last 2 finals especially have been totally forgettable, one-way affairs.

Originally Posted by Tiberian

Badly needed, Barca, Real, Bayern with Atletico over achieving was getting a little stale. Need one of the Milan clubs in that top echelon and for the PL teams to hold their own.

Doubt we will ever get the likes of Ajax back as a consistent competitive force with the current structure. Crying shame that for one of the historic clubs.

Yeah, it's reached the stage now where Ajax are losing their best young players to teams like Wolfsburg. They're £#%&!ed.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

Bayern weren't really over-acheiving, they've won one champions league title in 15 years...the competition was being completely dominated and imho ruined a little bit by Barcelona and Madrid. It was the same old story every year, watching Europe's best competition turned into a marketing platform for Ronaldo, Messi and Neymar.

2009 Barcelona
2010 Inter
2011 Barcelona
2012 Chelsea
2013 Bayern
2014 Madrid
2015 Barcelona
2016 Madrid

The last 2 finals especially have been totally forgettable, one-way affairs.

Last one went to penalties, pal.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Yeah, it's reached the stage now where Ajax are losing their best young players to teams like Wolfsburg. They're £#%&!ed.



Last one went to penalties, pal.

Did it?

I can't even £#%&!ing remember it pal tbh.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

As much as the Chinese involvement is lamented, it might help the game with the Inter situation. As it stands, they hope to have Simeone in charge with a huge budget this summer. Juventus are building well and could be a threat in the CL again this year.

Just need Milan to sort their shit out. It's never going to be like '90s Serie A but Inter and Juve could be threats next year.

no reason why italy can't come to dominate again. cyclical intit, so even if the best money is in england these days it probs won't always be like that...

would love to see benfica overtake porto and be a force. and would drool over a reincarnation of ajax. probably only a super league of some sort can fix that bit though.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

no reason why italy can't come to dominate again. cyclical intit, so even if the best money is in england these days it probs won't always be like that...

would love to see benfica overtake porto and be a force. and would drool over a reincarnation of ajax. probably only a super league of some sort can fix that bit though.

They have done. Very much top dogs in Portugal these days. But the Portuguese have sadly accepted their place now as stepping stones. It frustrates fans of those clubs but their whole structure is around short turnover of players because they expect to move them on after one decent season. It's a shame because they scout and develop outstandingly well.

Regarding Serie A, I say that just because the depth of quality there was insane for so many years when you had crazy Italian owners pissing money up the wall with no concern for the balance sheet. Great times. You had world class players turning out for teams battling for 5th or 6th place. Just feels to me now that this money shift is a long term thing.

Originally Posted by silv

It has it's highs... sure.

But those crushing lows... jeez.

We dont miss the european cup

the european cup misses us

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

They have done. Very much top dogs in Portugal these days. But the Portuguese have sadly accepted their place now as stepping stones. It frustrates fans of those clubs but their whole structure is around short turnover of players because they expect to move them on after one decent season. It's a shame because they scout and develop outstandingly well.

Regarding Serie A, I say that just because the depth of quality there was insane for so many years when you had crazy Italian owners pissing money up the wall with no concern for the balance sheet. Great times. You had world class players turning out for teams battling for 5th or 6th place. Just feels to me now that this money shift is a long term thing.

benfica are competing strongly at home but I wouldn't say they're a force in europe, or even close really. maybe they'll knock dortmund out and that'll be the start of something...

the money shift is a generational thing but eventually it will turn. whether that's a tv deal or a visa thing or a mafia thing who can say, but it will turn. they've still got giants from the past, just like england, just like spain - real went 30 years without a european cup. united 31, england went 15 years. bayern went what, 26? liverpool flukes a european cup but they haven't won the league for 28 years... i'd say milan and juve are competing better than some of that lot did, including us, in between rare periods of greatness.

Would it be fair to say that the financial disparity across Europe is also killing/damaging innovation in the game?

Has it dulled the impact of coaching? Mostly when it comes to tactical planning and new systems. I find it hard to take seriously that "Gegepressing" is considered some brave new footballing world when for years it was thought of as an innate flaw in the British game, high tempo, pressing, burn out early in a game with no way to control the match.

Originally Posted by saffers

We dont miss the european cup

the european cup misses us

I think that's pretty bold statement for a team that has finished 6th in its own league for two of the past three seasons. Becoming a club of entitlement is what's hindered us massively in the past three years imo. We need to earn that right again and I'm certain Jose will get us back there.

Originally Posted by believe

I think that's pretty bold statement for a team that has finished 6th in its own league for two of the past three seasons. Becoming a club of entitlement is what's hindered us massively in the past three years imo. We need to earn that right again and I'm certain Jose will get us back there.

Honestly how I feel.

CL is getting duller and worse for each year we're out of it, not just us but the likes of milan, inter etc.

It's basically the spanish 3 and bayern dominating for the last few years.

Originally Posted by Tiberian

Would it be fair to say that the financial disparity across Europe is also killing/damaging innovation in the game?

Has it dulled the impact of coaching? Mostly when it comes to tactical planning and new systems. I find it hard to take seriously that "Gegepressing" is considered some brave new footballing world when for years it was thought of as an innate flaw in the British game, high tempo, pressing, burn out early in a game with no way to control the match.

yep, agree totally. it's just an even more intense kick and rush, formally disparaged hugely especially by the germans, and especially in bavaria. which arguably is why guardiola failed there. and probably why bayern resolved to destroy klopp's dortmund.

klopp's way of playing is perfect for liverpool in theory since they are the archetypal textbook expert kick and rush team from the past. but like you say, it's extra even from what the english game used to be. guardiola's high press, so copied by so many others, is equally boring as £#%&! when teams do it constantly.

and both should be easy enough to counter and to play around if the players believe in their abilities and play for each other. which is why i had such high hopes for van gaal's slow slow quick quick slow solution. if only the quick bit hadn't been so shit we might have been able to mask how shit we were at the slow bit.

Originally Posted by Tiberian

Would it be fair to say that the financial disparity across Europe is also killing/damaging innovation in the game?

Has it dulled the impact of coaching? Mostly when it comes to tactical planning and new systems. I find it hard to take seriously that "Gegepressing" is considered some brave new footballing world when for years it was thought of as an innate flaw in the British game, high tempo, pressing, burn out early in a game with no way to control the match.

Not sure about lack of innovation. I think the intelligence of managers these days is very high, although Klopp's style I think is seen as effective but a bit basic by the sagey tactical managers anyway. For me the most notable growing tactical trend continues to generally be away from the individuals and more focused on the collective. Very few players left who are excused tactical indiscipline, regardless of how good they are.

Originally Posted by saffers

Honestly how I feel.

CL is getting duller and worse for each year we're out of it, not just us but the likes of milan, inter etc.

It's basically the spanish 3 and bayern dominating for the last few years.

Yep. Nobody in Europe wants to tune in midweek and see/hear some @#%&!s in a half empty shithole in Beswick booing the Champions League anthem ffs. Same goes for £#%&!ing Leicester.

It's stale as £#%&!.

The posts about the decline of Italian clubs are spot on.

Add to that Barcelona, Real Madrid, Bayern, Juventus - who already have top players - weakening the competition by hoovering up the top talents so others can't.

Then add the plastic clubs who are a stain on the tradition of the competition.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

yep, agree totally. it's just an even more intense kick and rush, formally disparaged hugely especially by the germans, and especially in bavaria. which arguably is why guardiola failed there. and probably why bayern resolved to destroy klopp's dortmund.

klopp's way of playing is perfect for liverpool in theory since they are the archetypal textbook expert kick and rush team from the past. but like you say, it's extra even from what the english game used to be. guardiola's high press, so copied by so many others, is equally boring as £#%&! when teams do it constantly.

and both should be easy enough to counter and to play around if the players believe in their abilities and play for each other. which is why i had such high hopes for van gaal's slow slow quick quick slow solution. if only the quick bit hadn't been so shit we might have been able to mask how shit we were at the slow bit.

Confidence and understanding is key to it, knowing where your teammates are, or should be and trusting each other. That comes from time playing together, shared experiences and constant exposure to high level coaching. The demands for instant success just do not allow that, spending is the first response and then the manager has to patch everything together rather than the organic growth which creates the very best sides.

Loads

Even more so that there aren't many (if any) outstanding teams in it...

Big shame to see Ajax being whipping boys these days while financial organisations are seen as contenders. Sad!

Originally Posted by dragflick

Yep. Nobody in Europe wants to tune in midweek and see/hear some @#%&!s in a half empty shithole in Beswick booing the Champions League anthem ffs. Same goes for £#%&!ing Leicester.

No need to have a go at fc ffs.

Originally Posted by silv

It has it's highs... sure.

But those crushing lows... jeez.

Leverkusen. Still feels 15 years on

Originally Posted by red in cumbria

Leverkusen. Still feels 15 years on

It really does. Dortmund was just total emptiness wondering how we didn't manage to beat them, Porto was a sickener too. Monaco we were pretty shit probably didn't deserve to go through, I'll stop now