Qatari Bid

Originally Posted by RedNick80

I woudn't go that far, they just aren't an ideal owner and its only now we are being forced to consider it.

I do understand people trying to excuse it or find reasons to accept it, after all anyone is better than the Glazers. Its a shit situation but we are here because of where football has ended up.

If a ME state takes over us then it'll just speed up my apathy sadly, but I won't try and make excuses for the owner if its a backward state. Be backward, do what you want in your own country but don't come and engage with our society if you don't want to be judged for what we perceive (rightly or wrongly) to be the right way to treat human beings.

I don’t think they’ve every complained about being judged by western society. Literally the opposite happened with everyone else judging them about the World Cup. They media were happily taking appearance fees for covering it and then slagging them off. Simple if you don’t like it don’t turn up.

The bit lineker did on bbc was cringy to watch. Bad mouthing a country after taking hundreds and thousands in appearance fees for covering the tournament he is bad mouthing.

If teams were serious they should have got together and boycotted it. But that’s never the way. Ideally teams turn and say no we aren’t playing and take the hit. But the fact remains , when it comes to human rights nobody really cares because things like money and entertainment will always trump them

Originally Posted by shenwen

Not really.

Yes it’s a bit of whataboutery, but doesn’t necessarily make it a bad argument.

When you for example buy an apple phone or a Tesla car you are making an ethical decision as well as a commercial one. This might not be as obvious as thinking about Qatar buying United but it’s still there. What is happening in cobalt mines in the Congo is x times worse than anything happening in Qatar. We can choose to avoid this reality, and most of us do exactly that.

Congo in the mix now?

We'd have some good chants!

Originally Posted by Dasilvatwins

100% agree, but that’s not how the world work sadly.

Your phone is built by kids barely on enough to eat in s**t working conditions.

Your clothes are made in sweatshops.

The food you eat is sourced by people in abhorrent labour conditions .

You can’t claim to take the morale high ground on the Qatari ownership, when all these other injustices in the world are being ignored, some which you are actively contributing to .

Now my point here is , your phone, clothes, food, there is nothing we can do. We aren’t going to shut down sweatshops , we aren’t in a realistic position to source our food to make sure it comes from ethical areas same with our clothes.

If you genuinely felt bad towards the Qatari injustices, if they do purchase the club you would stop supporting them. You can’t claim to hate these vicious human right injustices but then turn a blind eye because you want to watch your favourite sport. Then it’s a case of entertainment trumps any human rights . You can accept it , realise realistically there’s absolute **** all we can do and roll with it. Their track record of human rights is poor. I am agreeing with you.


You have to accept the fact that we can do nothing about it and that’s now the situation wrt to the Qataris. Of course you can hate the idea of them coming , you have every right . But to have such a ferocious backlash to this due to their human rights record and not towards others , you’re picking and choosing for when you’re angry towards injustices to people around the world .

I think your argument is ‘you can’t care about one issue unless you care about every issue in the world’. Respectively pal, it’s a terrible whataboutery argument. Hopefully it won’t come as too much of a surprise to reveal that people care about different things differently. And there’s inconsistencies. Are you autistic by any chance because you’re sounding very black and white?

I don’t like the fact that we sell arms to the Saudis but I’m not actively campaigning against it. I don’t like explorative labour practices delivering us iPhones but I still buy iPhones.

It doesn’t mean you can’t still hold a moral argument about MUFC ownership ffs. There’s loads of reasons why I’m against it - principally because my kids will end up watching a team that dominates in a league in which Middle East owned clubs will dominate and I think that’s s**t all round.

Stickers - tough one -neither - both models are terrible in my view. I think the glazer ownership arguably protects football more generally than the oligarch Middle East version which radically distorts everything. Glazers with considerably less debt and a more sensible hierarchy would be fine.

I wish we had followed the German model though. That’s easily the best and has been consistently successful.

Fwiw I’m slightly nervous about the Qatar takeover. Having worked in most of the gulf countries, Qatar has been the most difficult because they really do like to be in control. Emiratis and the saudis are quite happy to take a back seat but Qataris are definitely not.

I’ve no idea about the goings on at PSG but it will be interesting to see what involvement they have if things progress.

Originally Posted by RedNick80

Just because youv'e sold yourself that mechanism for absolving your own guilt for not caring (and thats all it is), doesn't mean anyone else should.

No-one can care about everything and be completely virtuous - so we should all not bother at all?

You should, but it will make you a hypocrite. Of course nobody can spend their whole lives mouthing off at the worst things in the world. It’s not mentally viable. But it doesn’t stop making people hypocrites when they are actively contributing towards human right exploitation and turn a blind eye but when it comes to sport and Manchester United all of a sudden there’s a backlash.

We should bother, I don’t like the Middle Eastern ( or any other billionaires who exploit human rights) . But there is absolutely nothing I can do about it if anyone is serious about the owners and their exploitation of workers/rights etc they would stop supporting the club the moment they join. Simple as. Otherwise they’re being hypocrites

Originally Posted by My Name is Keith

I think your argument is ‘you can’t care about one issue unless you care about every issue in the world’. Respectively pal, it’s a terrible whataboutery argument. Hopefully it won’t come as too much of a surprise to reveal that people care about different things differently. And there’s inconsistencies. Are you autistic by any chance because you’re sounding very black and white?

I don’t like the fact that we sell arms to the Saudis but I’m not actively campaigning against it. I don’t like explorative labour practices delivering us iPhones but I still buy iPhones.

It doesn’t mean you can’t still hold a moral argument about MUFC ownership ffs. There’s loads of reasons why I’m against it - principally because my kids will end up watching a team that dominates in a league in which Middle East owned clubs will dominate and I think that’s s**t all round.

Stickers - tough one -neither - both models are terrible in my view. I think the glazer ownership arguably protects football more generally than the oligarch Middle East version which radically distorts everything. Glazers with considerably less debt and a more sensible hierarchy would be fine.

I wish we had followed the German model though. That’s easily the best and has been consistently successful.

Do you think your kids will care? Serious question. Mine are obsessed with United and yet still want Salah/Halaand to score for their fantasy teams. I can’t get my head around that except to accept that football has changed. A lot.

Accept though that the fact we don’t live in Manchester does come into play a little.

cant wait

Originally Posted by shenwen

Do you think your kids will care? Serious question. Mine are obsessed with United and yet still want Salah/Halaand to score for their fantasy teams. I can’t get my head around that except to accept that football has changed. A lot.

Accept though that the fact we don’t live in Manchester does come into play a little.

I have the same issue re kids. (I do live in Manchester, well, close enough anyway). You are right, they won't GAF now, but I'm not sure if it continues the way it is my son will be sat on an internet forum debating shit when he's in his early 40's contending with mild hair loss, he'll have lost interest long ago.

Originally Posted by shenwen

Do you think your kids will care? Serious question. Mine are obsessed with United and yet still want Salah/Halaand to score for their fantasy teams. I can’t get my head around that except to accept that football has changed. A lot.

Accept though that the fact we don’t live in Manchester does come into play a little.

Possibly not. But they should. We’ve spent years moralising against city members of our family about their ownership so we’ve kind of set our position out.

No doubt We’ll still go irrespective of the ownership but we’ll end up loving the club (and football generally) less than I wish we could have.

Oh look, we’ve trounced Burnley 10-0 again. Great. Guess what, we’re playing city in the final for the 10 consecutive year etc.

Originally Posted by My Name is Keith

Possibly not. But they should. We’ve spent years moralising against city members of our family about their ownership so we’ve kind of set our position out.

No doubt We’ll still go irrespective of the ownership but we’ll end up loving the club (and football generally) less than I wish we could have.

Oh look, we’ve trounced Burnley 10-0 again. Great. Guess what, we’re playing city in the final for the 10 consecutive year etc.

Are we missing that city broke the rules to spend all that money? We wouldn't have unlimited money but, without the debt, we'd return to being highly profitable and be allowed spend those profits on the club instead of the debt.

City would never, ever have got to where they are without breaking the rules.

Think back to the Robinho signing, he didn't even know which club he was signing for....

All the money under the table and off the books is the only way they could sign top managers, players like aguero toure etc who were the bedrock of their success. They were a nothing club, less than nothing, utterly unknown outside of Stockport...



I'm not exactly thrilled about getting taken over by oil money, but it sure as shit beats having debt leveraged against the club and not being able to throw money around that is rightfully ours. As armers said, we can spend huge amounts within the rules. We're by far the biggest club in England, one of the top 2 or 3 in the world and our spending and pulling power should be able to reflect that.

Originally Posted by Dasilvatwins

Doesn’t deter from the fact that you still actively paying towards products that exploit children and adult workers? I never once said you’re not allowed to have morals or principals. I said it will be picking and choosing those morals and principles which isn’t right.

The exploiting of workers and rights is ok aslong as you directly benefit?

You missed my point completely. I said we can’t realistically avoid being involved or contribute or being near to some form of human tragedy. Like supporting a club that is owned by the Qataris.

So basically you’re saying it’s ok to exploit workers and children so you can live your modern lifestyle? Isn’t that what the Qataris are doing? Spending billions on a World Cup to support their modern lifestyle and ignoring the countless deaths?

You literally proved my point, they’re doing exactly what you’re suggesting. If we can’t give up industries that exploit children and humans for the benefit of our own modern day lifestyles , why do you have any expectation on them too?

What the £#%&! are you on about? First of all you have no idea how I live my life and the choices I make that may not not mitigate harm and hardship to someone well down the line, nor have I said directly or indirectly that it's OK to exploit anyone. Don't try to put that bullshit on me just to make you more comfortable with your own moral choices. @#%&!.

Secondly you're missing the point entirely. Supporting Man United isn't some sort of binary choice I've made. I'm saying that it won't sit right with me as person, so that IS going to affect my support. Maybe if it goes through it won't affect it enough to really change anything in the long run, maybe I'll continue to watch and support at around the same level. But I'm pretty certain I won't. From how I'm feeling with just the prospect of it happening then I doubt I'm going to be that invested anymore. Is what it is. I'd happily support the club though relegation after relegation, down into the non-leagues. I couldn't give a £#%&!. My support of the club has never been reliant on success to make myself feel better about my life. I'd much rather see us plummet the divisions than backing a club the size of Manchester United bending over and selling ourselves even more just to try and stay relevant in a sport already rankly overinflated with quick cash.

All this talk about Mbappe. Couldn't imagine being a grown man and getting excited about what is effectively disturbingly rich men real life Panani player trading. £#%&! that.

Originally Posted by Patty_b

What the £#%&! are you on about? First of all you have no idea how I live my life and the choices I make that may not not mitigate harm and hardship to someone well down the line, nor have I said directly or indirectly that it's OK to exploit anyone. Don't try to put that bullshit on me just to make you more comfortable with your own moral choices. @#%&!.

Secondly you're missing the point entirely. Supporting Man United isn't some sort of binary choice I've made. I'm saying that it won't sit right with me as person, so that IS going to affect my support. Maybe if it goes through it won't affect it enough to really change anything in the long run, maybe I'll continue to watch and support at around the same level. But I'm pretty certain I won't. From how I'm feeling with just the prospect of it happening then I doubt I'm going to be that invested anymore. Is what it is. I'd happily support the club though relegation after relegation, down into the non-leagues. I couldn't give a £#%&!. My support of the club has never been reliant on success to make myself feel better about my life. I'd much rather see us plummet the divisions than backing a club the size of Manchester United bending over and selling ourselves even more just to try and stay relevant in a sport already rankly overinflated with quick cash.

All this talk about Mbappe. Couldn't imagine being a grown man and getting excited about what is effectively disturbingly rich men real life Panani player trading. £#%&! that.

Would be good to see Mbappe playing for United though.

If you forget the Qatari aspect, if we signed him under fregal you'd be pretty chuffed!

Originally Posted by silv

Would be good to see Mbappe playing for United though.

If you forget the Qatari aspect, if we signed him under fregal you'd be pretty chuffed!

Yeah but that's the point, at worst with Fergie there maybe some bullshit about a horse, but at the end of the day the player will want to come to the club to some degree.

Now Mbappe's just being moved from one department to another. Like he could give a £#%&! he's at United now, as long as the big daddy at the top is paying, and he'll be somewhere else that's behind on their workload in a bit anyway. Just keep telling everyone you're happy to be at Manchester... eeerr... United, and that everything is great.

If that's what gets people off then crack on, but life's too short for me to try and convince myself that it's actually a really good thing for some reason or another. If you have kids, I can sort of understand it.

Isn't half of the people upset, expressing it on a slave made device?

Everything has an evil aspect.

I'd rather Fred West own us than the Glazers.

Originally Posted by Patty_b

Yeah but that's the point, at worst with Fergie there maybe some bullshit about a horse, but at the end of the day the player will want to come to the club to some degree.

Now Mbappe's just being moved from one department to another. Like he could give a £#%&! he's at United now, as long as the big daddy at the top is paying, and he'll be somewhere else that's behind on their workload in a bit anyway. Just keep telling everyone you're happy to be at Manchester... eeerr... United, and that everything is great.

If that's what gets people off then crack on, but life's too short for me to try and convince myself that it's actually a really good thing for some reason or another. If you have kids, I can sort of understand it.

Surely the vast majority of top pros will want to play where they can earn the most money though? And as for the panini comment, surely that's what football's been like for the last 20 years plus (agree it totally sucks).

Completely respect where you're coming from and have very mixed feelings, but at the end of the day, given the options would much rather be owned by Qatar than the Glazers.

People talking about standards and ethics. Does anybody know what the standards and ethics are of Ratcliffe/Ineos or the American consortiums which might be interested?

Originally Posted by Wayne Jenkins

People talking about standards and ethics. Does anybody know what the standards and ethics are of Radcliffe/Ineos or the American consortiums which might be interested?

It’s only an issue if it’s related to the Middle East.

Originally Posted by believe

It’s only an issue if it’s related to the Middle East.

Are you being paid to post this shit?

Originally Posted by waynes ear's

Are you being paid to post this shit?

Well, yeah.