Rooney out for 3 weeks

Originally Posted by Menace

Carrick is back apparently.

Don't know if that is good news though.

Just a minute ago, Ivanovic strode out of defense with the ball. If Carrick added that to his game he'd be up there with Essien for me. The amount of times he gets the ball with acres infront of him and looks to be passing it on is frustrating. If he drove into the space with it, he'd score more, set more up and be a lot more of a dominant force a la Keane in games.

Originally Posted by Argentina

Just a minute ago, Ivanovic strode out of defense with the ball. If Carrick added that to his game he'd be up there with Essien for me. The amount of times he gets the ball with acres infront of him and looks to be passing it on is frustrating. If he drove into the space with it, he'd score more, set more up and be a lot more of a dominant force a la Keane in games.

Carrick is never going to be that player though.

It's like asking Pirlo to roam around and do the Gattuso job.

His strength is in his range of passing; picking the ball up from defence and distributing it to the attackers. He hasn't done that well enough in the recent past, but when he's on form he's as good as anyone in the country.

Xavi Alonso doesn't need to stomp around the pitch like Essien to be recognised as a great player. He does it with his passing and ability to dictate the tempo of a game. That's what Carrick should be doing.

Originally Posted by Menace

Carrick is never going to be that player though.

It's like asking Pirlo to roam around and do the Gattuso job.

His strength is in his range of passing; picking the ball up from defence and distributing it to the attackers. He hasn't done that well enough in the recent past, but when he's on form he's as good as anyone in the country.

Xavi Alonso doesn't need to stomp around the pitch like Essien to be recognised as a great player. He does it with his passing and ability to dictate the tempo of a game. That's what Carrick should be doing.

I'm not saying he needs to do that. I'm saying the very basic thing you teach kids - if you've got space in front of you, dribble into the space. When the space closes, look to pass or take a player on. I know he's never going to be Ronaldo and take players on, but just driving 10 yards changes the picture of the field and commits players to you.

Originally Posted by Argentina

I'm not saying he needs to do that. I'm saying the very basic thing you teach kids - if you've got space in front of you, dribble into the space. When the space closes, look to pass or take a player on. I know he's never going to be Ronaldo and take players on, but just driving 10 yards changes the picture of the field and commits players to you.

Fair enough.

I still don't think that will make him anything like Essien, though. They are two completely different types of player IMO. If anything I think they'd work well together. Hargeaves is more of an Essien type.

I think if Hargreaves can somehow regain his form and fitness we will see a massive difference in Carrick.

Originally Posted by taff

yep. tbh i suspect this is a bit of a smokescreen to give him a chance to lie low for a bit, have a proper rest, and work on getting his head together and his fitness back. he hasn't really set us alight for a few games now so it's as good a time as any.

Exacty what I was thinking, Taff.

Originally Posted by Menace

Fair enough.

I still don't think that will make him anything like Essien, though. They are two completely different types of player IMO. If anything I think they'd work well together. Hargeaves is more of an Essien type.

I think if Hargreaves can somehow regain his form and fitness we will see a massive difference in Carrick.

I didn't mean he will be the same player. I meant in terms of dominating games, and having the games revolve around him.

I agree with the Hargreaves point, but we've seen a move away from the chalk and cheese central defensive partnerships where one is a brute who attacks the ball and one is a ball player to where both have to be able to do both.
With the central midfielders, a lot of people have a chalk and cheese attitude to them still, but a lot of the great teams of recent times have had 2 well rounded individuals. (Keane and Scholes, Xavi and Iniesta) I know Chelsea are an exception but they don't play a 4-4-2 as a default.

Originally Posted by Argentina

Just a minute ago, Ivanovic strode out of defense with the ball. If Carrick added that to his game he'd be up there with Essien for me. The amount of times he gets the ball with acres infront of him and looks to be passing it on is frustrating. If he drove into the space with it, he'd score more, set more up and be a lot more of a dominant force a la Keane in games.

Agreed.

An on form Carrick is our best all round midfielder, does an excellent defensive job with his positional play and ability to intercept passes. He absolutely excels in getting the ball early to the attackers feet in central areas, one part of his passing range that may actually surpass Scholes. He does not have the cross field ball striking ability of Scholes but because he uses his side foot for the majority of his passes he has more disguise in where he is going.

You can not deny that last season was poor for him, let himself down on big occasions, too meek in his play, he was the subject of a lot of criticism after the Barcelona CL final, and never really got himself going.

When he gets back into the team he needs to show more authority, aggression and leadership, been at Utd for a few years, is a senior player now and should be in the prime of his career for his style of player.

Originally Posted by Tiberian

An on form Carrick is our best all round midfielder, does an excellent defensive job with his positional play and ability to intercept passes. He absolutely excels in getting the ball early to the attackers feet in central areas, one part of his passing range that may actually surpass Scholes. He does not have the cross field ball striking ability of Scholes but because he uses his side foot for the majority of his passes he has more disguise in where he is going.

You can not deny that last season was poor for him, let himself down on big occasions, too meek in his play, he was the subject of a lot of criticism after the Barcelona CL final, and never really got himself going.

When he gets back into the team he needs to show more authority, aggression and leadership, been at Utd for a few years, is a senior player now and should be in the prime of his career for his style of player.

Totally agree with that.

Originally Posted by Tiberian

An on form Carrick is our best all round midfielder, does an excellent defensive job with his positional play and ability to intercept passes. He absolutely excels in getting the ball early to the attackers feet in central areas, one part of his passing range that may actually surpass Scholes. He does not have the cross field ball striking ability of Scholes but because he uses his side foot for the majority of his passes he has more disguise in where he is going.

You can not deny that last season was poor for him, let himself down on big occasions, too meek in his play, he was the subject of a lot of criticism after the Barcelona CL final, and never really got himself going.

When he gets back into the team he needs to show more authority, aggression and leadership, been at Utd for a few years, is a senior player now and should be in the prime of his career for his style of player.

Agree with that.

Don't think we should expect miracles tomorrow night either. It'll be a big ask for the three that play in centre midfield (assuming he goes for three). Carrick and Anderson are short on fitness, Gibson hasn't featured an awful lot and Fletcher has just off the back of a tough away game against Bolton.

Just hope we're not on the end of a hammering. They've got two good wingers and a forward strong in the air. Midfield is good too, hoping Banega is still injured. Still think their back four can be got at though.

Rooney out for 3 weeks

So is the Mull motwyw consider

lay utd.

nft.

Originally Posted by Argentina

Scholes out for 10 days. Fletcher, Park and Gibson centre mid

park isn't that bad.

Nailed on win.

2-1.

stfu

Originally Posted by Coracao

Nailed on win.

2-1.

stfu

If we only concede 1 goal then we've turned a corner at least. I'm not confident at all we'll beat them. The teams confidence seems shot to pieces. Rio and Vidic playing tomorrow, apparently. We need to stop shipping goals.

If the team's confidence was "shot to pieces" they would never have come back not once but twice against Bolton - or recovered to stop the Vermin carrying out one of the biggest heists since the Great Train Robbery. A few players might be suffereing a bit, I agree - Evans would probably be relieved to be dropped, tbh.

I hope both Rio and Carrick play in Spain and indeed for a run of games - we might look a different team then

Originally Posted by red in cumbria

If the team's confidence was "shot to pieces" they would never have come back not once but twice against Bolton - or recovered to stop the Vermin carrying out one of the biggest heists since the Great Train Robbery. A few players might be suffereing a bit, I agree - Evans would probably be relieved to be dropped, tbh.

I hope both Rio and Carrick play in Spain and indeed for a run of games - we might look a different team then

It's not like you to argue the toss.
Let me get this right, you think conceding twice to Bolton is OK. You mention the scousers, they're 1 point above the relegation zone. Is this your defence that the team *isn't* lacking confidence?

Maybe I should have said they weren't lacking confidence, then you'd have said they were and we could have agreed with each other.

Originally Posted by ScarFace

Good. He's been £#%&!ing shit all season. Hopefully this gives him the time off he needs to fix his mongy head.

£#%&! off and die you @#%&!

If Carrick plays we have a great chance tonight. He'll bring stability.

Originally Posted by Albert Tatlock

Loan deal or sold ?

If sold do we know how much ?

Originally Posted by andyroo

Sold, not terribly much apparently

Santos bloke: "We'd like to buy Possebon"
David Gill: "Ok. Make us an offer"
Santos bloke: "oh, not terribly much"
David Gill: "SOLD!"