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Unread 29-07-2020, 01:37 PM
Coracao
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Stranger
I take your point, but I think the priority in that area is still improving the first 11.

We can do better than Lindelof.

Don't mind him as back up. And Tuanzebe. MAYBE Bailly. Bin the rest.
The problem is that there are little to no guarantees and every club in the top 7 in England is after a centre half.

Who is going be a significant improvement, available and not a considerable risk ? It would be a pretty short list. There aren't many top level players out there. Who are the top 5 in the league ? It is probably a laughable list compared to 10 years ago.
 
Unread 29-07-2020, 01:39 PM
Dr Stranger
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coracao
The problem is that there are little to no guarantees and every club in the top 7 in England is after a centre half.

Who is going be a significant improvement, available and not a considerable risk ? It would be a pretty short list. There aren't many top level players out there. Who are the top 5 in the league ? It is probably a laughable list compared to 10 years ago.
Honestly, I haven't got a clue. I'm not gonna pretend I've got my finger on the pulse re world football, but in terms of a type and the composition of the squad, I really think we should be prioritising quality over quantity.

In terms of the defence, I don't think a priority is better back up, but a better partner for Maguire.
 
Unread 29-07-2020, 01:47 PM
Coracao
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Stranger
Honestly, I haven't got a clue. I'm not gonna pretend I've got my finger on the pulse re world football, but in terms of a type and the composition of the squad, I really think we should be prioritising quality over quantity.

In terms of the defence, I don't think a priority is better back up, but a better partner for Maguire.
Well, that's a given. Everyone would prefer him to have a better partner. I think the list who that consists of though is extremely limited. To the extent, I'm not convinced it will be a position we look at this summer. I think we risk signing a centre half for the sake of signing one and who will be no real improvement at all. And i don't rate Lindelof at all
 
Unread 29-07-2020, 01:57 PM
Dr Stranger
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coracao
Well, that's a given. Everyone would prefer him to have a better partner. I think the list who that consists of though is extremely limited. To the extent, I'm not convinced it will be a position we look at this summer. I think we risk signing a centre half for the sake of signing one and who will be no real improvement at all. And i don't rate Lindelof at all
I keep changing in terms of what we need more: A CM or a DM....it usually depends on which part of the team has £#%&!ed up more recently.

The reality is that there are at least 3 areas we need an upgrade on the first or at least equal competition:

Wide right
CM
DM

We'll have the funds for one, maybe two of those areas.

Then there's a central striker issue once Ighalo goes and both full back areas have question marks over them IMO.

I've said it elsewhere, I'd much rather we signed 1 or 2 and got quality, than 4 or 5 players of filler.

With Bruno, we've seen the impact a significant upgrade in just one area.
 
Unread 29-07-2020, 02:16 PM
dunk
 
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Both.

If an offer comes in for Fred, take it.
 
Unread 29-07-2020, 02:29 PM
Dr Stranger
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunk
Both.

If an offer comes in for Fred, take it.
I can't see us selling Fred. Think he's very much in the plans.
 
Unread 29-07-2020, 02:33 PM
dunk
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Stranger
I can't see us selling Fred. Think he's very much in the plans.
I like the lad, but I’m not quite sure what he’s good at
 
Unread 29-07-2020, 02:34 PM
bosskeano
 
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improve the spine of the team...CB and 2 CM's and hopefully they are mobile players. We won't have the cash to get two CM's unless we can sell some of that deadweight.

Wide Right has to be the priority though b/c we need a natural player on the right and we need a bit more quality and depth in our attack.Adding Sancho to the group immediately upgrades both quality and depth.
 
Unread 29-07-2020, 02:39 PM
Dr Stranger
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunk
I like the lad, but I’m not quite sure what he’s good at
He's not brilliant at anything, but he's comfortable on the ball, quick, tenacious and I think he generally fits in with the pace of the side and where Ole wants to go.

The fee hasn't helped him. For that money, you expect a Bruno-style match winner and that he ain't.

I like his personality too. Tiny little Brazilian, playing his trade in the Ukraine comes into a notoriously difficult league, and a Mourinho side Bereft of confidence and positivity.

Looked dead in the water, but kept his head down and has made a worthwhile contribution and forced his way into plans.

He's proven himself in once sense and deserves the chance to do so again IMO.
 
Unread 29-07-2020, 02:41 PM
bosskeano
 
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i'm actually a big fan of Fred....i think he settled well and i think the style that Ole wants to play suits him better than Jose
 
Unread 29-07-2020, 02:41 PM
suedeshoes
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunk
I like the lad, but I’m not quite sure what he’s good at
Well it's definitely not playing football.
 
Unread 29-07-2020, 02:43 PM
Coracao
 
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The problem with Fred is that he doesn't cover any of the positions to a good level.

He can't come in for Matic, as his positional play is nowhere near good enough. And if he comes in for Pogba / Fernandes, he is nowhere near creative enough. Not a bad option if you are expecting not to have the ball and need someone to run around. But he isnt an adequate replacement for any of those in the first XI. That said, he provides a different option.
 
Unread 29-07-2020, 02:47 PM
Dr Stranger
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coracao
The problem with Fred is that he doesn't cover any of the positions to a good level.

He can't come in for Matic, as his positional play is nowhere near good enough. And if he comes in for Pogba / Fernandes, he is nowhere near creative enough. Not a bad option if you are expecting not to have the ball and need someone to run around. But he isnt an adequate replacement for any of those in the first XI.
True. The Scottish Player is similar.

When you play Matic, Bruno and Pogba, you got from having 3 good midfielders to having 'specialists'.

When it was The Scottish Player and Fred with one of Pogba, Matic or Lingard, they both just kind of do a bit of everything to good level. Keep it honest and get it the other forwards with ability.

Now, we actually have a proper midfield set up, they need to get better at a specific role.

They're both hard working enough to do that.
 
Unread 29-07-2020, 02:47 PM
dunk
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coracao
The problem with Fred is that he doesn't cover any of the positions to a good level.

He can't come in for Matic, as his positional play is nowhere near good enough. And if he comes in for Pogba / Fernandes, he is nowhere near creative enough. Not a bad option if you are expecting not to have the ball and need someone to run around. But he isnt an adequate replacement for any of those in the first XI.
I think that’s where I am with him. And it isn’t like he has attributes that make him a viable alternative to mix things up. I like him, he grafts and is energetic, but he doesn’t help us in being more solid through the middle, he doesn’t help us retain the ball and isn’t more positive with the ball by running with it or passing it forward directly.. he just sort of scurries about getting in the way deffo one to upgrade imo. Fred, Lingard, Pereira and Gomes out and off the wage bill and replaced by 2 or 3 proper midfielders would be fantastic
 
Unread 29-07-2020, 02:57 PM
pedr0
 
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as has been said, it's a case of identifying the right players and making sure we get them when they are available...not just buying a CB because we 'need' a CB.

if sancho and grealish are both available, and ole wants them, then i'd be happy to see us spend all our summer funds on them. that would be the attack sorted - you can perm any 4 from 6 and put out a strong line-up, with james and ighalo adding depth.
 
Unread 29-07-2020, 05:06 PM
utd99
 
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I think I saw a stat that said Fred created more chances than anyone in the squad last season. Would have lost money on that one.

I like him though. We paid too much for sure, but he really came on after Jose left and Ole gave him a chance.
 
Unread 29-07-2020, 05:41 PM
bosskeano
 
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problem is that we have 3 guys in matic,McT and Fred who are just too similar in style of play and they go sign Matic to an extension. We need someone with a bit of bite and pace to cover when we play Bruno and Pogba together.

If not, Maguire and Lindelof get a bit exposed without cover. Torres probably has a bit more pace than either guy, hell Ake probably does as well and both are left footed.
 
Unread 29-07-2020, 05:53 PM
jem
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Stranger
He's not brilliant at anything, but he's comfortable on the ball, quick, tenacious and I think he generally fits in with the pace of the side and where Ole wants to go.

The fee hasn't helped him. For that money, you expect a Bruno-style match winner and that he ain't.

I like his personality too. Tiny little Brazilian, playing his trade in the Ukraine comes into a notoriously difficult league, and a Mourinho side Bereft of confidence and positivity.

Looked dead in the water, but kept his head down and has made a worthwhile contribution and forced his way into plans.

He's proven himself in once sense and deserves the chance to do so again IMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Stranger
True. The Scottish Player is similar.

When you play Matic, Bruno and Pogba, you got from having 3 good midfielders to having 'specialists'.

When it was The Scottish Player and Fred with one of Pogba, Matic or Lingard, they both just kind of do a bit of everything to good level. Keep it honest and get it the other forwards with ability.

Now, we actually have a proper midfield set up, they need to get better at a specific role.

They're both hard working enough to do that.
so, he's bit like mata, then.

great when we play shite and need to give the big boys a rest.

fair enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bosskeano
problem is that we have 3 guys in matic,McT and Fred who are just too similar in style of play and they go sign Matic to an extension. We need someone with a bit of bite and pace to cover when we play Bruno and Pogba together.
pausing briefly to laugh at the idea that mctog and fred are similar in style to matic.... what we need is someone to realise that bruno and pogba shouldn't play together, if pogba is going to play defensive midfield. either pogba plays in an attacking role or he doesn't play.
 
Unread 29-07-2020, 06:08 PM
bosskeano
 
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Matic said recently that he sees himself as a mentor for McT b/c he sees a lot of himself in how young Scott plays
 
Unread 29-07-2020, 06:11 PM
jem
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bosskeano
Matic said recently that he sees himself as a mentor for McT b/c he sees a lot of himself in how young Scott plays
I am sure he does see himself as a mentor. the other bit.... not so much.
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