Chelsea v Manchester United : Official Match Thread : 28/2/21 4:30pm

Originally Posted by ZiggyStardust

You seem to be struggling to understand the difference between winning a game and dominating the opposition

We had some good period in the last win in Paris but it required bringing on Pogba to reassert ourselves in that game
The first win in Paris we were on the back foot all game and somehow managed to win 3-1

Ah right. No then.

Originally Posted by Coracao

He perhaps shouldn't be playing for one of the biggest clubs in football then, tbf.

Why? If you had enough creative players in the side who were expected to chip in going forward, and by that I mean the extra midfielder we currently commit to shielding a shaky back line and a regular contribution from the full backs, we’d be talking about how Fred’s industry gives them the platform and security to play.

Originally Posted by utd99

So basically City or Liverpool then? Two teams who have enough quality going forward to create independent of their deeper lying midfielders.

Liverpool have won plenty of games over the past two years with very workmen-like industrial midfielders such as Henderson and Milner, and City don’t generally need to commit two of their starting eleven to protecting the back line so it’s far more likely that anyone sitting deeper would be tasked more with doing the things Fred is very good at and less of the things he’s not.

I get what you’re saying, but Fred is playing in a very unbalanced team. He would look much better in a team that didn’t require him to chip in creatively because that’s not his game.

What is his game then? He's definitely not a defensive midfielder. He's not box to box. He's not a 10. He has no short passing game. What is he?

Agree on the rest. Henderson and Milner are far better players than our 50 million Brazilian.

Madness.

Originally Posted by utd99

Why? If you had enough creative players in the side who were expected to chip in going forward, and by that I mean the extra midfielder we currently commit to shielding a shaky back line and a regular contribution from the full backs, we’d be talking about how Fred’s industry gives them the platform and security to play.

No we wouldn't.

We'd be talking about the same things. His inability to do the basics with a football. It's not even like he is some top class holding midfielder. He has high energy levels and can at best be described as nuisance.

A top 5 club in Europe should not have someone so basic at playing football in central midfield.

I actually like Fred, he is an endearing character who gives his all. He just isn't a good enough footballer to take Utd to a league title.

Originally Posted by shenwen

What is his game then? He's definitely not a defensive midfielder. He's not box to box. He's not a 10. He has no short passing game. What is he?

Agree on the rest. Henderson and Milner are far better players than our 50 million Brazilian.

Madness.

You know what it is. He covers every blade of grass, breaks up opposition play, regains and retains possession very well and keeps it simple to allow others, with different attributes, to perform. It’s an aspect of the game that’s easy to sneer at and take for granted until you don’t have it.

Originally Posted by Coracao

No we wouldn't.

We'd be talking about the same things. His inability to do the basics with a football. It's not even like he is some top class holding midfielder. He has high energy levels and can at best be described as nuisance.

A top 5 club in Europe should not have someone so basic at playing football in central midfield.

I actually like Fred, he is an endearing character who gives his all. He just isn't a good enough footballer to take Utd to a league title.

:andersonmarchinggif:

Originally Posted by believe

:andersonmarchinggif:

He couldn't even do that right.

Originally Posted by Coracao

No we wouldn't.

We'd be talking about the same things. His inability to do the basics with a football. It's not even like he is some top class holding midfielder. He has high energy levels and can at best be described as nuisance.

A top 5 club in Europe should not have someone so basic at playing football in central midfield.

I actually like Fred, he is an endearing character who gives his all. He just isn't a good enough footballer to take Utd to a league title.

Then we’ll have to disagree. Look, I’m not suggesting for a moment that you can’t upgrade on the guy, simply that what he brings would look much better and more valuable in a better, more balanced team is all.

Originally Posted by utd99

Then we’ll have to disagree. Look, I’m not suggesting for a moment that you can’t upgrade on the guy, simply that what he brings would look much better and more valuable in a better, more balanced team is all.

Or his inabilties with the ball would stick out even more

Originally Posted by Coracao

Or his inabilties with the ball would stick out even more

It’s the ghost of Smalling. AWB is haunted by it too.

Fred is great out of possession, he's either hassling the opposition to win the ball back, or filling in for out of position teammates.

In possession he's a f***ing nightmare, consistently shit at playing any sort of pass to a teammate and embarrassingly bad at shooting. He can play the odd defence splitting pass every 5 games or so, but we should be expecting more from him.

If we line up against a strong team where we don't expect to see the majority of the ball then he's a good option to have, and this is when he tends to have his better games.

But the majority of our games we do have more of the ball and have to work to break down the opposition, and this is where he looks utterly **** the majority of the time.

I don't think he's good enough to be a first 11 player for Man United, great option to have for some games, but we need someone better at playing football for the majority of games we play.

Originally Posted by Patty_b

Fred is great out of possession, he's either hassling the opposition to win the ball back, or filling in for out of position teammates.

In possession he's a £#%&!ing nightmare, consistently shit at playing any sort of pass to a teammate and embarrassingly bad at shooting. He can play the odd defence splitting pass every 5 games or so, but we should be expecting more from him.

If we line up against a strong team where we don't expect to see the majority of the ball then he's a good option to have, and this is when he tends to have his better games.

But the majority of our games we do have more of the ball and have to work to break down the opposition, and this is where he looks utterly **** the majority of the time.

I don't think he's good enough to be a first 11 player for Man United, great option to have for some games, but we need someone better at playing football for the majority of games we play.

I’m not sure who that player is though. An obvious upgrade, gettable, and do we want to commit that much money when there’s absolutely glaring deficiencies in this team. Rice? Ndidi? Expensive and the latter is injury prone.

The current rule on what constitutes handball.

It is an offence if a player:

deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, including moving the hand/arm towards the ball touches the ball with their hand/arm when:

- the hand/arm has made their body unnaturally bigger

- the hand/arm is above/beyond their shoulder level (unless the player deliberately plays the ball which then touches their hand/arm)

The problem with our midfield is the same as the problem as our defence, in that you can probably have one of Fred or The Scottish Player, but not both, just like you could have one of Maguire or Lindelof, but not both, as the pairs are too similar, and don't do enough to cover the other's deficiencies, exacerbating their weaknesses.

Fred and The Scottish Player are both industrious, mobile, high energy players, who can press and disrupt the opposition, and get up and down the pitch. But both lack the quality on the ball to be true midfield orchestrators, particularly at the elite level. One of them would be good to have in the side, but pair them together and it's not good enough.

Same story in defence, where you have players in Maguire and Lindelof that are both good at the same things - playing on the back foot, in a deep defensive line, they can defend aerial balls well, and they can both bring the ball out and distribute effectively. What they both lack is true pace to play a high line confidently.

We need a commanding centre back who has electric pace, and is ideally left-footed, and we need a midfield orchestrator, who can dictate the tempo of a football match for 90 minutes from deep midfield.

Originally Posted by utd99

I’m not sure who that player is though. An obvious upgrade, gettable, and do we want to commit that much money when there’s absolutely glaring deficiencies in this team. Rice? Ndidi? Expensive and the latter is injury prone.

Neither do I

Suppose that's the biggest problem, it's all well and good identifying the problem, it's fixing it that's the issue.

I've said before, although I hate to say it, Fabinho is the player we wish Fred was.

Originally Posted by utd99

I’m not sure who that player is though. An obvious upgrade, gettable, and do we want to commit that much money when there’s absolutely glaring deficiencies in this team. Rice? Ndidi? Expensive and the latter is injury prone.

In fairness that's what a scouting department is there for

It's not for lads on a Utd forum who probably don't watch much football outside of the Premier League to come up with a reasonably priced alternative

Originally Posted by Patty_b

Neither do I

Suppose that's the biggest problem, it's all well and good identifying the problem, it's fixing it that's the issue.

I've said before, although I hate to say it, Fabinho is the player we wish Fred was.

Originally Posted by ZiggyStardust

In fairness that's what a scouting department is there for

It's not for lads on a Utd forum who probably don't watch much football outside of the Premier League to come up with a reasonably priced alternative

Well, given that there’s a finite amount of money available, and especially with what’s going on, do you think we should be allocating dough to this? Maybe, but I think we badly need a CB, CF and some competion in the wide areas, because too many of our side are being picked on name and not form.

https://twitter.com/sistoney67/status/1366144687145324546?s=19

Delighted that this has caused so much £#%&!ing mayhem. No way should we take this bullshit lying down.

Manager came out swinging as he should

Originally Posted by Sparky***

Delighted that this has caused so much £#%&!ing mayhem. No way should we take this bullshit lying down.

Manager came out swinging as he should

Talk of charging Shaw now. He was actually cut off by Shreeves and never finished his sentence. Unless he repeated it off camera I dont think he actually said much. Meanwhile Klopp essentially accused all refs of cheating and gets away Scot free. Hopefully they charge Shaw and United go windmilling.