Arsenal v Manchester United : Official Match Thread : 23/4/22 12:30pm

Originally Posted by Dr Stranger

I’m sure it wasn’t the intention, but perhaps it need to get this bad to wake everyone up. No hiding behind top four. No clinging to some perceived progress. We are palpably bad.

Perhaps it didn’t.

Strange hill to die on this. Let’s do as badly as possible because that’s the only way the club wakes up. So Ralph has played a blinder if he gets us relegated?

It’s an odd logic. Him speaking candidly about the state of it all is 100% positive. Us getting repeatedly trounced and humiliated isn’t.

Originally Posted by jem

not sure we have any.

Ironically, just him.

I know we were shit, but that refereeing/VAR performance what a £#%&!ing mess officials are at the moment. Just horrendous. The Euros was superb for both officiating and the use of VAR in the main and yet somehow our lot contrive to be utter, utter shit once more.

Originally Posted by dunk

Ironically, just him.

I know we were shit, but that refereeing/VAR performance what a £#%&!ing mess officials are at the moment. Just horrendous. The Euros was superb for both officiating and the use of VAR in the main and yet somehow our lot contrive to be utter, utter shit once more.

The standard of Premier League officiating has been an utter disgrace for a few years now. At best they are utterly incompetent, at worst it's manipulation.

Yesterday was bad, but it's not a one off in our games for the past few years. I'm sure it's not just us, but the amount of piss poor decisions despite having VAR available is insane.

Originally Posted by Hyman_Roth

Perhaps it didn’t.

Strange hill to die on this. Let’s do as badly as possible because that’s the only way the club wakes up. So Ralph has played a blinder if he gets us relegated?

It’s an odd logic. Him speaking candidly about the state of it all is 100% positive. Us getting repeatedly trounced and humiliated isn’t.

No, that is specifically what I haven’t said. You’re suggesting it’s a deliberate and we want it. Nobody wants to be this bad and in and of itself, it’s not a good thing, but some good might come of it, as a result. For the reasons I’ve mentioned.

Originally Posted by Patty_b

The standard of Premier League officiating has been an utter disgrace for a few years now. At best they are utterly incompetent, at worst it's manipulation.

Yesterday was bad, but it's not a one off in our games for the past few years. I'm sure it's not just us, but the amount of piss poor decisions despite having VAR available is insane.

I think they expected VAR to be the tech that cut out the human, but most decisions on a football pitch are not a matter of fact. Ultimately, it’s a human being making a decision, so now we just have two of them doing it instead.

Originally Posted by Hyman_Roth

Perhaps it didn’t.

Strange hill to die on this. Let’s do as badly as possible because that’s the only way the club wakes up. So Ralph has played a blinder if he gets us relegated?

It’s an odd logic. Him speaking candidly about the state of it all is 100% positive. Us getting repeatedly trounced and humiliated isn’t.

This is true, but what he’s saying would be less impactful had we done well. He’d have just have come across unpleasant.

Odd situation, but, if he had clout in Ten Hag coming and is actually making the right recommendations re what the club needs to do going forward then I’m completely willing to look past his poor managerial performance.

Like I said, odd situation, but I think he’s going to have done a lot more good than harm up until now.

The other thing is, players can actually put in performances in spite of their manager, many of them aren’t trying a leg - it’s completely unprofessional whether the players like/rate him or not.

Originally Posted by Stickman

This is true, but what he’s saying would be less impactful had we done well. He’d have just have come across unpleasant.

Odd situation, but, if he had clout in Ten Hag coming and is actually making the right recommendations re what the club needs to do going forward then I’m completely willing to look past his poor managerial performance.

Like I said, odd situation, but I think he’s going to have done a lot more good than harm up until now.

The other thing is, players can actually put in performances in spite of their manager, many of them aren’t trying a leg - it’s completely unprofessional whether the players like/rate him or not.

He didn't.

Originally Posted by dunk

He didn't.

Regardless of the facts, it will be the narrative forever now that Ralf was instrumental in ETH coming here

Originally Posted by Ethers

Regardless of the facts, it will be the narrative forever now that Ralf was instrumental in ETH coming here

He's even said it himself he's been left to deal with the team, that's it.

I don't doubt he'll be delivering a withering report on all members of staff to ETH, but let's be fair, any one of us could've done that. It even seems we're much quicker on the pick up as to how bad they are/it is than anyone inside the club.

Well perhaps he’s making the right recommendations in other areas. Who knows. I don’t mind the guy at all though, respect him for not pandering to the playing staff, most of them haven’t earned that.

Re Dunk. I didn’t see that quote from him. I’m not pinned to backing Rangnick through hell or highwater.

Also re any one of us delivering the verdict, it takes a certain type to be robotic about it. Many happen to be too nice to make that type of assessment coldly.

Originally Posted by Stickman

Well perhaps he’s making the right recommendations in other areas. Who knows. I don’t mind the guy at all though, respect him for not pandering to the playing staff, most of them haven’t earned that.

Re Dunk. I didn’t see that quote from him. I’m not pinned to backing Rangnick through hell or highwater.

Also re any one of us delivering the verdict, it takes a certain type to be robotic about it. Many happen to be too nice to make that type of assessment coldly.

wasn't directed at you pal. There's a narrative forming that Ralf was instrumental in the hiring of ETH to some way offset his dire performance is all.

Originally Posted by dunk

wasn't directed at you pal. There's a narrative forming that Ralf was instrumental in the hiring of ETH to some way offset his dire performance is all.

all good man.

Arguing the toss over this manager did this, that manager did that is pointless. 4 in 15 or 5 in 14. It’s clear that the issue lies on the pitch.

A manager can only do so much to motivate. The players £#%&!ed the league off in October. What is it 8 of them were out of contract in the summer? They were never going to push hard to finish fourth and the second we went out of the CL they were always going to check out. Those who are quick to stick the knife into Ralf should look at the similar post-CL collapse during the second half of Oles interim spell - and that was with players who were largely still here the next season. Ole bore the brunt of the criticism for that run - but many of the same players were here.

We need to stop this Ole this, Ralf that shit and direct the criticism where it is deserved - to the ownership and the bullshitters on the pitch

Originally Posted by dunk

wasn't directed at you pal. There's a narrative forming that Ralf was instrumental in the hiring of ETH to some way offset his dire performance is all.

By who?

This argument about the manager's merits has gotten pretty odd. Strawmen all over the place - someone even mentioned Ralf fan boys . Where are they ffs? I'm still struggling to see anyone who has actually said ralf has/is doing a great job. Saffers aside, but come on...

At best people are relieved that he's not shirking from the truth.Yes, maybe it's just because he's an interim and his career isn't dependent on brown nosing the owners, but better than nothing no?

Originally Posted by shenwen

By who?

This argument about the manager's merits has gotten pretty odd. Strawmen all over the place - someone even mentioned Ralf fan boys . Where are they ffs? I'm still struggling to see anyone who has actually said ralf has/is doing a great job. Saffers aside, but come on...

At best people are relieved that he's not shirking from the truth.Yes, maybe it's just because he's an interim and his career isn't dependent on brown nosing the owners, but better than nothing no?

This.

I don’t see anyone saying he’s done a good job, perhaps that he did a good job initially, but not now. The ‘defence’ of him stems more from where issues with the team actually lie. I think his failure reflects more on the team. They’re the ones who have a succession of various different managers under their belt with the same outcome. That’s no defending Ralf, that’s criticising the team and putting the blame where it should be.

Originally Posted by dunk

wasn't directed at you pal. There's a narrative forming that Ralf was instrumental in the hiring of ETH to some way offset his dire performance is all.

You love a good tweet/link

https://www.manutd.com/en/amp/news/d...an-utd-manager

Now I’m sure he goes beyond him just saying “ yea that ten hag is ok” to Richard Arnold in the corridor

Obviously we don’t know to what extent, but he’s mentioned it in press conference that he did mention ten hag. Choose what you want to the extent of his case to the board about him.