Our Away Form?? Hmmmm

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

"weak midfield". "symptomatic of the season". blah blah blahbaddy £#%&!ing blah.

united were short of numbers in midfield yesterday was the first problem. on the goal park didn't track his man was the second. ferguson said this was because he wasn't given the instructions quickly enough, so motwyw.

the ramsay goal was probably arsenal's first real chance to score. they didn't get at the back four much, especially through the centre, and hardly got at eddy at all. united have managed just 1 goal in the last 3 league games.

Arsenal were poor yesterday...just as lacklustre & non-threatening as us.
Which is precisely why we should have come away with something.
It was a pitiful defeat.

Carrick does a great holding job for the side, but he never gets in the box - neither does Anderson.
Park is always involved for his industry & his knack of scoring in these kind of games, but him Nani & Valencia were all shit yesterday.
Nani especially is turning in petulant, greedy performances at just the wrong time.

Rooney & Pea were far from at their best, but it's not like either of them missed any chances. They had no service or support.
Only Fabio takes the game to opponents these days.

Rio looked shaky as £#%&! at times too.

It's amazing how important Giggsy still is to the side. He brings the best out in everyone else.

Originally Posted by magic_cantona

Throb, we've been short of quality in the centre of midfield for huge parts of this season.Again, we were crying out for someone to get hold of the game and create something out of nowt - but there was £#%&! all.Look at that @#%&! Lampard, anonymous for 99% of the game vs Spurs but turns the game with a speculative effort (yes, I know, it wasn't in) but at least he's getting a shot on target.The lack of goals from our midfield this season (wingers apart) has been woeful for a club like ours.

It's undeniable and it's been an accident waiting to happen since at least the summer.

well, united haven't been prolific from centre midfield for a long long time. lampard was a prolific goalscorer from centre midfield throughout united's run of 3-in-a-row. basically it's desirable but not crucial to have a major goal threat from the centre of the field. most crucial to united is and has always been goals made from wide areas, from crosses in particular.

united have been on a winning streak against arsenal almost exclusively using 4-5-1. yesterday it was 4-4-2 with rooney dropping in. he is not a midfielder. hargreaves, fletcher, giggs and scholes were all missing yesterday. any one of those in place of rooney (or more likely hernandez) would've been the way to go, surely.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

hargreaves, fletcher, giggs and scholes were all missing yesterday. any one of those in place of rooney (or more likely hernandez) would've been the way to go, surely.

I agree.
Tbf, I think you were the only one who called it in the predicted team thread.
In hindsight it was a no brainer.

Rooney up top on his own against Arsenal has produced pretty a much 100% success. He was so £#%&!ing deep at times yesterday it was ridiculous.

Originally Posted by MJ Ramone

I agree.
Tbf, I think you were the only one who called it in the predicted team thread.
In hindsight it was a no brainer.

Rooney up top on his own against Arsenal has produced pretty a much 100% success. He was so £#%&!ing deep at times yesterday it was ridiculous.

doubt it. the team thread is a piss-take. although united should match up in a 5-5-0 if we play barcelona, nqat.

Originally Posted by MJ Ramone

I agree.
Tbf, I think you were the only one who called it in the predicted team thread.
In hindsight it was a no brainer.

Rooney up top on his own against Arsenal has produced pretty a much 100% success. He was so £#%&!ing deep at times yesterday it was ridiculous.

he was deep - completely out of his depth

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

he was deep - completely out of his depth

dropping in is all very well, but he's not a central midfielder.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

"weak midfield". "symptomatic of the season". blah blah blahbaddy £#%&!ing blah.

united were short of numbers in midfield yesterday was the first problem. on the goal park didn't track his man was the second. ferguson said this was because he wasn't given the instructions quickly enough, so motwyw.

the ramsay goal was probably arsenal's first real chance to score. they didn't get at the back four much, especially through the centre, and hardly got at eddy at all. united have managed just 1 goal in the last 3 league games.

You'd be absolutely delusional if you didn't see the central midfield is the weak point.

Now that wingers are struggling the only player who's worth a shite atm is giggs.

Originally Posted by Fuzzy Dunlop

You'd be absolutely delusional if you didn't see the central midfield is the weak point.

Now that wingers are struggling the only player who's worth a shite atm is giggs.

i honestly don't know what ferguson sees in carrick, scholes, fletcher, park, giggs, anderson, nani, valencia... or what he saw in hargreaves...

Originally Posted by MJ Ramone

I agree.
Tbf, I think you were the only one who called it in the predicted team thread.
In hindsight it was a no brainer.

Rooney up top on his own against Arsenal has produced pretty a much 100% success. He was so £#%&!ing deep at times yesterday it was ridiculous.

Arsenal were there for the taking yesterday.

That, allied with our recent superb record against them, makes the approach adopted yesterday - and the utter predictability of the result - arguably the biggest bummer of the season

And tbh, that would be the case even without the possibly dire consequences

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

i honestly don't know what ferguson sees in carrick, scholes, fletcher, park, giggs, anderson, nani, valencia... or what he saw in hargreaves...

Great.

Originally Posted by Mr_Ed

But set a European Cup record by not conceding an away goal. How the £#%&!?

The difference between our domestic and European performances away from OT this season is so utterly vast it can't *just* be explained by the reasons others have already given, valid though they are. It *has* to be to a great extent a mental thing - and the buck for that stops, surely, with SAF himself.

As it is, the fact that next weekend's game is at OT just MIGHT save us - we can but hope

I would like to see Berbatov and Rooney back as a pair, there will be better control of the ball and more interplay between the attacking players. As much as the Pea has contributed his ability on the ball outside of goalscoring positions is limited, and it is starting to become predictable for domestic opposition.

Rooney has the tendency to drop far too deep and of course his infatuation with that long ball out to Valencia, who has struggled to find the quality on his final ball since he came back into the side, gets into lots of good areas and his cross will be blocked or he is tentative about running at his man.

Giggs has been very important to the shape of the side playing in midfield, he gets into more advanced areas, pushes Rooney closer to his strike partner by occupying spaces that Rooney gets drawn into and looks to feed the strikers with short passes. Without Giggs you need the ability of Berbatov to play between the lines and find runners and angles of pass that hurt teams.

Odd selection and even stranger subs by Fergie yesterday. Match Arsenal in midfield, play with intensity and present their defenders with a physical challenge, that has brought continual results against them. It was as if we underestimated them.

Originally Posted by red in cumbria

The difference between our domestic and European performances away from OT this season is so utterly vast it can't *just* be explained by the reasons others have already given, valid though they are. It *has* to be to a great extent a mental thing - and the buck for that stops, surely, with SAF himself.

As it is, the fact that next weekend's game is at OT just MIGHT save us - we can but hope

The biggest difference is time on the ball, Souness nailed it with his comments last Tues. The rest of Europe play at walking pace in comparison to football in this country.

I don't see it as a mental thing, just the fact we can pass the ball about comfortably without having journeyman cloggers haring round and diving in every 2 seconds.

there's far too much being read into one game here. hernandez and rooney were excellent against schalke and in both games against chelsea; in fact they were far from the problem on sunday and created several decent opportunities. drawing broad conclusions from one game, away to the third-best team in the country and following a european away with all that involves, doesn't really make much sense.

the key to our season is going to be how well fergie manages the squad so as to keep them fresh, given that over the last three weeks we've been playing more games than any of our rivals, including a series of tough matches in recent weeks (arsenal away, chelsea home and away, city at wembley, the trip to germany). giving giggs a rest was very wise, despite the loss, and i'd expect to see a number of changes for wednesday aiming at giving key players a rest - one or both of the centre halves, probably rooney and hernandez, maybe park and carrick, possibly vds.

Originally Posted by Tiberian

Odd selection and even stranger subs by Fergie yesterday. Match Arsenal in midfield, play with intensity and present their defenders with a physical challenge, that has brought continual results against them. It was as if we underestimated them

It's not even as if Arsenal played particularly well, ffs - maybe that is what hurts the most

Originally Posted by red in cumbria

It's not even as if Arsenal played particularly well, ffs - maybe that is what hurts the most

They only had 2 shots on target.

Originally Posted by borsuk

there's far too much being read into one game here. hernandez and rooney were excellent against schalke and in both games against chelsea; in fact they were far from the problem on sunday and created several decent opportunities. drawing broad conclusions from one game, away to the third-best team in the country and following a european away with all that involves, doesn't really make much sense.

.

Utd have scored 8 goals in their last 8 games, Rooney and Hernandez have started as a pair in 6 of those, Utd beat Fulham 2-0 with Berbatov up front by himself, and lost to City, again with Berbatov up front by himself in the other of those 8.

There have been several difficult games in that run, twice against Chelsea, away to Arsenal, but the goals have dried up and for all the praise that the Rooney- Hernandez partnership has received the recent numbers do not make it look that productive.

Originally Posted by Tiberian

Utd have scored 8 goals in their last 8 games, Rooney and Hernandez have started as a pair in 6 of those, Utd beat Fulham 2-0 with Berbatov up front by himself, and lost to City, again with Berbatov up front by himself in the other of those 8.

There have been several difficult games in that run, twice against Chelsea, away to Arsenal, but the goals have dried up and for all the praise that the Rooney- Hernandez partnership has received the recent numbers do not make it look that productive.

That is £#%&!ing shocking.

Originally Posted by Tiberian

Utd have scored 8 goals in their last 8 games, Rooney and Hernandez have started as a pair in 6 of those, Utd beat Fulham 2-0 with Berbatov up front by himself, and lost to City, again with Berbatov up front by himself in the other of those 8.

There have been several difficult games in that run, twice against Chelsea, away to Arsenal, but the goals have dried up and for all the praise that the Rooney- Hernandez partnership has received the recent numbers do not make it look that productive.

in those 8 we've beaten schalke away (goals from rooney and giggs, created by hernandez and rooney), everton (hernandez), chelsea home (hernandez and park) and away (rooney). looks pretty productive to me in a run of games that has been as hard as any we've had. those are all good sides, several of them played away from home, add in city at wembley, of course.

the 'last 8 games' is a bit of an artificial cut off as well, given that the ninth was the game in which rooney got 3 and hernandez 1

as i said, far too much being read into the arsenal game. one of the penalties or a goal from play - i still can't believe we didn't score from the classic break in the second half when we had 4 against 2 - and the comments would be very different. the hernandez and rooney pairing hasn't just been productive in terms of goals, it has also seen rooney return to form and united begin to really look a team consistently for the first time this season.