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Unread 13-10-2018, 01:29 PM
utd99
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Albert Tatlock
Rashford has only ever played for us.

Several high profile players have come to us on the back of excellent performances with other clubs, have been mediocre or even useless and then moved on and regained their form. Andy Cole came to us as a prolific goal scorer for Newcastle (and Bristol before ?) and was pretty average for his first season, but we persevered with him and the rest is as they say history. So is the problem us or the player ?
We’re Man Utd; If we don’t want to be Everton then our standards need to be different than theirs, and if that means less time to make your mark then so be it. There’s at least as much danger in waiting too long than not long enough.

I think too many United supporters are confused by our own history. We think of the babes and the co92, and because that was so great they imagine that’s the norm for United, the way it should be all the time. But it’s neither normal nor expected, any more than Barcelona having three academy players being in the top five players in the world was normal for one team. Fergie knew this, which is why he didn’t start to properly promote young players -Robbins aside- until they had a very good team of veteran players to come into. If a young player has the added weight of ‘saviour’ like Januzaj did, or flag bearer for the club’s ‘identity’ like Rashford has, it’s doomed from the start.

Priorities.
 
Unread 13-10-2018, 01:49 PM
TripDownMiseryLane
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyroo
If Rashford must be written off as a failure, and that is premature however badly he's playing at the moment, it needn't be the end of United as a producer rather than importer of talent. What he is is a good player who's struggling. The manager hasn't handled him well and no statistic about game time will change that.

We are in trouble at every level but Rashford is a bit of a canary in a coal mine in that sense.
Well premature, he is 20, has had some wonderful games and will only get better. If properly managed he'll be a star. Why are people on his back?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranier Wolfcastle
When was the last time a home grown player broke into our team and became world class/indispensable first team player? No one this century?
where have you been for the last 20 years?

I just think it's important for utd to have at least a couple of home growns in the team, you know, lads who actually care who they are playing for, not these bunch of tossers who are just here for the dough.
 
Unread 13-10-2018, 02:24 PM
Sapien
 
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He's a great player and youse are all £#%&!ing idiots
 
Unread 13-10-2018, 02:26 PM
Stickman
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TripDownMiseryLane
Well premature, he is 20, has had some wonderful games and will only get better. If properly managed he'll be a star. Why are people on his back?



where have you been for the last 20 years?

I just think it's important for utd to have at least a couple of home growns in the team, you know, lads who actually care who they are playing for, not these bunch of tossers who are just here for the dough.
Right.
 
Unread 13-10-2018, 02:38 PM
Sparky***
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranier Wolfcastle
When was the last time a home grown player broke into our team and became world class/indispensable first team player? No one this century?
The elephant in the room.

United haven’t produced a top player in over 20 years.
 
Unread 13-10-2018, 02:55 PM
TripDownMiseryLane
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky***
The elephant in the room.

United haven’t produced a top player in over 20 years.
not so sure thats true, the prem was full of ex utd players, many who could have stayed and done a job, better than a lot of the imported shite we bought.
 
Unread 13-10-2018, 03:30 PM
Coracao
 
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Not seen much improvement from Rashford for a while. If anything he has probably regressed. He isn't skilful enough to play out wide and doesn't have the game to lead the line, so it's difficult to see how he is going to develop into the player that some think he could be. I've never really seen him as a potential top talent tho tbf.
 
Unread 13-10-2018, 03:32 PM
Red Al
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranier Wolfcastle
When was the last time a home grown player broke into our team and became world class/indispensable first team player? No one this century?

Who was the last one(CO92 aside)?
 
Unread 13-10-2018, 04:16 PM
S/Side.Red
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clownbones




Yes ofcourse. And we do.

He gets plenty of shit on his own thread. He isn't popular.

The point was merely about him at least being prolific, which he is.

I don't see how Rashford scoring a consolation more recently than Lukaku is much to shout about tbh. I'd wager Lukaku will have more over the next 5, the next 10 and by the end of the season.

Rashford isn't doing enough with the chances he's being given for club and country. Two absolute howlers this week for both and it'll jeopardise his place in both teams.

He needs to do more.




And what if you're wrong?

How would that play out?

I'd imagine with the kind of form and finishing we're seeing at the moment.
Lukaku isn't that prolific for United. He has 20 league goals in 43 games, which is the least I'd expect for an un-droppable £75m centre-forward in his prime. I know he gets criticism, I just think if you're going to use him to make unfavourable comparisons with a young striker playing on the wing, this isn't the best moment given Lukaku is closing on 600 minutes without a goal.

I have never said Rashford is nailed on to be world class, or that he's in incredible form. But his potential is much greater than a few on here would have it, and his form isn't as bad as you're suggesting - especially in the context of a team bereft of confidence.

He scored a great goal at West Ham at a moment we needed it. It was rendered a consolation because we conceded again immediately, which is hardly his fault. Then he was the biggest threat against Valencia. He was poor against Newcastle during a match in which everyone else was appalling for 70 minutes. Overall his form isn't a worry to me. But, like many others, he could do with a new manager.
 
Unread 13-10-2018, 04:21 PM
Neo
 
Football

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coracao
Not seen much improvement from Rashford for a while. If anything he has probably regressed. He isn't skilful enough to play out wide and doesn't have the game to lead the line, so it's difficult to see how he is going to develop into the player that some think he could be. I've never really seen him as a potential top talent tho tbf.
Disagree with most of that.

He has one of the most important traits in a modern-day attacking player, and a gift that you can't learn - blistering pace. It's also evident that he can lead the line, given some of his performances in big games for United. I see him as a number 9, and once he's grown into his frame I think he will be a top player in that position.

It's easy to forget that he is only 20 years old; an age where most promising players are out on loan at a lower level, yet he's playing more minutes than anyone at Manchester United. His recent performances are all about confidence IMO, which is painfully predictable given how badly he's been infected by the career-killing Mourinho virus; an illness that is more deadly to the young than measles.

I think it's imperative that United get in a coach who can motivate and improve the younger talents at the club, and help them evolve into top-level players. Anthony Martial is only two years older than Rashford, and Mason Greenwood is three years younger. We cannot allow these exceptional talents to be eaten alive under the management of the Portuguese virus. Both Rashford and Martial were brilliant under Van Gaal, so the proof is there that they can play if given faith and the right education; they will get neither under Mourinho.
 
Unread 13-10-2018, 04:26 PM
Switching Off
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo
Disagree with most of that.

He has one of the most important traits in a modern-day attacking player, and a gift that you can't learn - blistering pace. It's also evident that he can lead the line, given some of his performances in big games for United. I see him as a number 9, and once he's grown into his frame I think he will be a top player in that position.

It's easy to forget that he is only 20 years old; an age where most promising players are out on loan at a lower level, yet he's playing more minutes than anyone at Manchester United. His recent performances are all about confidence IMO, which is painfully predictable given how badly he's been infected by the career-killing Mourinho virus; an illness that is more deadly to the young than measles.

I think it's imperative that United get in a coach who can motivate and improve the younger talents at the club, and help them evolve into top-level players. Anthony Martial is only two years older than Rashford, and Mason Greenwood is three years younger. We cannot allow these exceptional talents to be eaten alive under the management of the Portuguese virus. Both Rashford and Martial were brilliant under Van Gaal, so the proof is there that they can play if given faith and the right education; they will get neither under Mourinho.
 
Unread 13-10-2018, 04:27 PM
Buck
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Al
Who was the last one(CO92 aside)?
Wes Brown was the guy who crossed the ball for Ronaldo in Moscow

Darren Fletcher was really good for a few years. O'Shea nutmegged Figo and Januzaj was the communist Kaka for a while.
 
Unread 13-10-2018, 04:29 PM
S/Side.Red
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo
Disagree with most of that.

He has one of the most important traits in a modern-day attacking player, and a gift that you can't learn - blistering pace. It's also evident that he can lead the line, given some of his performances in big games for United. I see him as a number 9, and once he's grown into his frame I think he will be a top player in that position.

It's easy to forget that he is only 20 years old; an age where most promising players are out on loan at a lower level, yet he's playing more minutes than anyone at Manchester United. His recent performances are all about confidence IMO, which is painfully predictable given how badly he's been infected by the career-killing Mourinho virus; an illness that is more deadly to the young than measles.

I think it's imperative that United get in a coach who can motivate and improve the younger talents at the club, and help them evolve into top-level players. Anthony Martial is only two years older than Rashford, and Mason Greenwood is three years younger. We cannot allow these exceptional talents to be eaten alive under the management of the Portuguese virus. Both Rashford and Martial were brilliant under Van Gaal, so the proof is there that they can play if given faith and the right education; they will get neither under Mourinho.
Indeed. And sadly this was all too predictable. The plight of the young players in the team and the prospects of many within the academy were clearly a cause for concern when Mourinho took the job. To speak of that at the time was viewed as pessimistic. Now it's been realised it seems convenient to blame each young player individually.

Rashford has demonstrated an ability to score a variety of goals. The free-kick against Celta; the goal at West Ham which would have received far more attention in a different context; the goal against Liverpool; the goal at City; the poacher's goals he scored when he first emerged by being in the right place. He lacks a little subtlety to play out wide, even if he still causes teams problems when on form.

He's a striker, with plenty to his game. His confidence has been stripped by this manager, like many of the other young players. But I think he'll come through it, although this time United will need to recognise the importance of a manager who will develop young talent.
 
Unread 13-10-2018, 04:29 PM
Cream
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky***
The elephant in the room.

United haven’t produced a top player in over 20 years.
They've produced some top players, but no top top players.
 
Unread 13-10-2018, 04:33 PM
Buck
 
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No such comment when Mourinho signed a new contract

 
Unread 13-10-2018, 04:46 PM
Neo
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S/Side.Red
Indeed. And sadly this was all too predictable. The plight of the young players in the team and the prospects of many within the academy were clearly a cause for concern when Mourinho took the job. To speak of that at the time was viewed as pessimistic. Now it's been realised it seems convenient to blame each young player individually.

Rashford has demonstrated an ability to score a variety of goals. The free-kick against Celta; the goal at West Ham which would have received far more attention in a different context; the goal against Liverpool; the goal at City; the poacher's goals he scored when he first emerged by being in the right place. He lacks a little subtlety to play out wide, even if he still causes teams problems when on form.

He's a striker, with plenty to his game. His confidence has been stripped by this manager, like many of the other young players. But I think he'll come through it, although this time United will need to recognise the importance of a manager who will develop young talent.
I think this such a key point, and probably the most important point of all when it comes to the club.

The central problem IMO is one that has been raised many times - that the people in charge of the club are not football men, and don't have the long-term football interests of the club at heart. They are money men, and it is far more profitable in terms of the United brand to sign older, established stars. It is these older, established names that ramp up the social media brand of Manchester United Plc, and bring in the sponsors with their buckets of millions.

Sadly, I don't see any drastic changes until the current owners have changed, as they are ultimately the main decision makers at the club. The alternative is to bring in someone at a DoF level who can work with a forward-thinking manager, and act as an intermediary between manager, chief exec and owner, but why would the owners do this when profits are higher than ever, and Woodward is doing as good a job as ever in achieving what the owners wish to achieve, which is essentially long-term asset stripping?
 
Unread 13-10-2018, 04:49 PM
S/Side.Red
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo
I think this such a key point, and probably the most important point of all when it comes to the club.

The central problem IMO is one that has been raised many times - that the people in charge of the club are not football men, and don't have the long-term football interests of the club at heart. They are money men, and it is far more profitable in terms of the United brand to sign older, established stars. It is these older, established names that ramp up the social media brand of Manchester United Plc, and bring in the sponsors with their buckets of millions.

Sadly, I don't see any drastic changes until the current owners have changed, as they are ultimately the main decision makers at the club. The alternative is to bring in someone at a DoF level who can work with a forward-thinking manager, and act as an intermediary between manager, chief exec and owner, but why would the owners do this when profits are higher than ever, and Woodward is doing as good a job as ever in achieving what the owners wish to achieve, which is essentially long-term asset stripping?
I agree it is unlikely to change. Links with Allegri, who is clearly an excellent manager but comes from a culture where youth development is not a priority. But of course he has the CV. We were told by people on here last season that Sarri didn't. Essentially, the name is important, which is largely why Mourinho - while obviously in decline - got the job. But I guess that's us a club now.
 
Unread 13-10-2018, 04:55 PM
TripDownMiseryLane
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo
Disagree with most of that.

He has one of the most important traits in a modern-day attacking player, and a gift that you can't learn - blistering pace. It's also evident that he can lead the line, given some of his performances in big games for United. I see him as a number 9, and once he's grown into his frame I think he will be a top player in that position.

It's easy to forget that he is only 20 years old; an age where most promising players are out on loan at a lower level, yet he's playing more minutes than anyone at Manchester United. His recent performances are all about confidence IMO, which is painfully predictable given how badly he's been infected by the career-killing Mourinho virus; an illness that is more deadly to the young than measles.

I think it's imperative that United get in a coach who can motivate and improve the younger talents at the club, and help them evolve into top-level players. Anthony Martial is only two years older than Rashford, and Mason Greenwood is three years younger. We cannot allow these exceptional talents to be eaten alive under the management of the Portuguese virus. Both Rashford and Martial were brilliant under Van Gaal, so the proof is there that they can play if given faith and the right education; they will get neither under Mourinho.
postage there neo. anyone not willing to give young marcus a chance should go and support whoever, he 's a manc and that in its self is worth 10% before he kicks a ball.

Selling decent players like danny welbeck and buying in shite that cost trillions hasn't exactly worked.
 
Unread 13-10-2018, 05:06 PM
Coracao
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo
Disagree with most of that.

He has one of the most important traits in a modern-day attacking player, and a gift that you can't learn - blistering pace. It's also evident that he can lead the line, given some of his performances in big games for United. I see him as a number 9, and once he's grown into his frame I think he will be a top player in that position.

It's easy to forget that he is only 20 years old; an age where most promising players are out on loan at a lower level, yet he's playing more minutes than anyone at Manchester United. His recent performances are all about confidence IMO, which is painfully predictable given how badly he's been infected by the career-killing Mourinho virus; an illness that is more deadly to the young than measles.

I think it's imperative that United get in a coach who can motivate and improve the younger talents at the club, and help them evolve into top-level players. Anthony Martial is only two years older than Rashford, and Mason Greenwood is three years younger. We cannot allow these exceptional talents to be eaten alive under the management of the Portuguese virus. Both Rashford and Martial were brilliant under Van Gaal, so the proof is there that they can play if given faith and the right education; they will get neither under Mourinho.
Plenty of players have had pace, it doesn't mean they will go on to be a top player. Rashford's current level is miles off being good enough to lead the line for United for me, he simply doesn't have the technique, finishing, intelligence or hold up play. Neither does Lukaku, but that is another story entirely. That said, I wouldn't expect many players at 20 years old to be able to lead the line for United anyway, so hardly a massive slight on him. I have never thought his ability is that great, and haven't seen anything to convince me otherwise. Unlike some, I hope he proves me wrong, as I don't hold staunch views on managers and players like some do, which I won't change.

Blaming the manager for all our ills is an easy cop out for these players, they need to take some responsiblity for self-improvement. There are glaring weaknesses in numerous player's games where you wonder if they actually put the hours in to rectify them in any way whatsoever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TripDownMiseryLane
postage there neo. anyone not willing to give young marcus a chance should go and support whoever, he 's a manc and that in its self is worth 10% before he kicks a ball.

Selling decent players like danny welbeck and buying in shite that cost trillions hasn't exactly worked.
People are surely allowed differemt opinions on players?
 
Unread 13-10-2018, 05:24 PM
TripDownMiseryLane
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coracao
Plenty of players have had pace, it doesn't mean they will go on to be a top player. Rashford's current level is miles off being good enough to lead the line for United for me, he simply doesn't have the technique, finishing, intelligence or hold up play. Neither does Lukaku, but that is another story entirely. That said, I wouldn't expect many players at 20 years old to be able to lead the line for United anyway, so hardly a massive slight on him. I have never thought his ability is that great, and haven't seen anything to convince me otherwise. Unlike some, I hope he proves me wrong, as I don't hold staunch views on managers and players like some do, which I won't change.

Blaming the manager for all our ills is an easy cop out for these players, they need to take some responsiblity for self-improvement. There are glaring weaknesses in numerous player's games where you wonder if they actually put the hours in to rectify them in any way whatsoever.



People are surely allowed differemt opinions on players?
no doubt and the point of a forum, no? just gets my back when people jump on a young lad from manchester who is only finding his way. I thought your post reasoned and I'd be very much of the same mind, I hope he makes it.
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