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Unread 15-09-2019, 09:09 AM
AK14
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saayfooty
The only positive from the game was our defense. Maguire and Lindelof were air tight especially with McT and Matic in front of them.

Our attack was abysmal. This was the worst performance out of the games we had so far. Maybe that is due to Pogba not being in the midfield, maybe not.

The formation needs to change. 4231 is a formation that relies heavily on 4 exceptional attackers, which we do not have. Come to think of it. I don't think any top teams in europe play 4231. Most of them play 433.

Everyone critisizing Mata and Matic are being over critical. They were no better or worse than the other players on the pitch.

Everyone says we are in transition and blah blah but how long does it take to get the team playing better football? We should be seeing glimpses of improvement or a part of the game where we are scintilating but we seem to be regressing. Look at Chelsea. Lamps has got them playing good football. Even Norwich, they play great football with lesser players.

Against Astana, I expect to see a dominating performance. I expect to dominate possession and cut through their defence over and over again. Not the crap we witnessed against Leicester.
Agree about the formation, 4231 doesn’t suite us at all because we haven’t got a genuine quality number 10 that can dictate the tempo. 433 would see us get the best out of the players imo and on paper looks like it suits us much better.
 
Unread 15-09-2019, 09:24 AM
shenwen
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saayfooty
T

Everyone critisizing Mata and Matic are being over critical. They were no better or worse than the other players on the pitch.
Mata and matic both played worse than McTomonay, AWB, Maguire, Lindelof...and the rest.

Clearly nonsense to try and excuse their performances with “nobody else played well either”. Especially as you contradict that with your first paragraph.
 
Unread 15-09-2019, 09:43 AM
saayfooty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puressence
expect .. you £#%&!ing non entity
Great response. Very constructive

Quote:
Originally Posted by shenwen
Mata and matic both played worse than McTomonay, AWB, Maguire, Lindelof...and the rest.

Clearly nonsense to try and excuse their performances with “nobody else played well either”. Especially as you contradict that with your first paragraph.
Let me clarify. Matic and McT played at the same level. Mata and Pereria played at the same level.

The differences in their performances are negligble. Yet, people have biases.
 
Unread 15-09-2019, 09:48 AM
Patty_b
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saayfooty
Great response. Very constructive



Let me clarify. Matic and McT played at the same level. Mata and Pereria played at the same level.

The differences in their performances are negligble. Yet, people have biases.


Weren't you saying the other week that it's awful that yesterdays MOTM was a Man United first team player, and that he offers nothing to the team?
 
Unread 15-09-2019, 09:52 AM
Cream
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saayfooty
The only positive from the game was our defense. Maguire and Lindelof were air tight especially with McT and Matic in front of them.

Our attack was abysmal. This was the worst performance out of the games we had so far. Maybe that is due to Pogba not being in the midfield, maybe not.

The formation needs to change. 4231 is a formation that relies heavily on 4 exceptional attackers, which we do not have. Come to think of it. I don't think any top teams in europe play 4231. Most of them play 433.

Everyone critisizing Mata and Matic are being over critical. They were no better or worse than the other players on the pitch.

Everyone says we are in transition and blah blah but how long does it take to get the team playing better football? We should be seeing glimpses of improvement or a part of the game where we are scintilating but we seem to be regressing. Look at Chelsea. Lamps has got them playing good football. Even Norwich, they play great football with lesser players.

Against Astana, I expect to see a dominating performance. I expect to dominate possession and cut through their defence over and over again. Not the crap we witnessed against Leicester.
To be fair, Lamps got lamped at Old trafford just a few games ago. Chelsea only managed a draw against Leicester, who we just beat.

They have one good game and everything changes. So I'd argue we can do the same.

What is clear is that we can still win games with key players missing. Granted we looked pretty mediocre and aimless at times but this is all about results.

Much like LVG said, it's ok having a philosophy but you need the players to carry it out on the pitch. Ole wants us solid at the back and bombing forward. There's your plan. I like that plan. It's only gonna work in patches, especially until the players are comfortable with it.

We need that one game where everything clicks.
 
Unread 15-09-2019, 10:01 AM
no fun
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saayfooty
Great response. Very constructive


By pures usual standard it’s pretty good actually
 
Unread 15-09-2019, 11:28 AM
Alex Jones was Right
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saayfooty
Everyone says we are in transition and blah blah but how long does it take to get the team playing better football? We should be seeing glimpses of improvement or a part of the game where we are scintilating but we seem to be regressing. Look at Chelsea. Lamps has got them playing good football. Even Norwich, they play great football with lesser players.
Chelsea already played good football. How long did it take Norwich to play ‘great’ football? United’s football has been fundamentally shite for almost a decade. It’s not going to turn the corner inside 12 months. It will be gradual, with ups and downs. There were glimpses of fast passing and movement at times in the first half, which has largely been absent for a decade or so.
 
Unread 15-09-2019, 12:10 PM
shenwen
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saayfooty

Let me clarify. Matic and McT played at the same level.
.
Okay. I’m out. Good luck.
 
Unread 15-09-2019, 01:47 PM
dunk
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shenwen
Okay. I’m out. Good luck.
The blokes got a thing for Matic he was horrific yesterday, we improved markedly when he got the hook.
 
Unread 15-09-2019, 04:36 PM
red in cumbria
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no fun
By pures usual standard it’s pretty good actually
No spelling errors for a start
 
Unread 15-09-2019, 06:09 PM
utd99
 
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We seem to be very selective on which academy kids we make allowances for.
 
Unread 15-09-2019, 07:01 PM
dunk
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saayfooty
We improved markedly? How so?

Nothing significant changed..
We stopped giving it away and passing it out of play, we were no longer penned in our own half and we even offered a couple of mild threats purely by virtue of Matic not lumbering about failing to do his defensive work and giving it away every time he touched it either directly or by playing hospital passes. He’s £#%&!ing dire. Also, hooking Matic & Matameant The Scottish Player didn’t have to babysit him and could push on a bit safe in the knowledge Fred and Pereira can run, which led to him winning the free kick Rashford hit the bar with. Small things that were caused by Matic and Mata holding us back.
 
Unread 16-09-2019, 06:30 AM
Dasilvatwins
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saayfooty

I'm unbiased. At the very least, Matic and The Scottish Player provide the same to the team, and I think that's generou.People are overrating The Scottish Player or underrating Matic..
Either youre Wumming or The Scottish Player stole your sweets when you were younger.

Nobody is saying The Scottish Player is this world class midfielder, but there is a stark difference in what he brings to the team than matic.

Matic does £#%&! all and lose the ball. The Scottish Player wins the ball better and presses quicker than matic.

He also passed the ball much better than matic. Of course The Scottish Player also lost the ball , but the whole team is doing that. The Scottish Player brings something to this team. Matic brings £#%&! all.
 
Unread 16-09-2019, 06:37 AM
Cream
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dasilvatwins
Either youre Wumming or The Scottish Player stole your sweets when you were younger.

Nobody is saying The Scottish Player is this world class midfielder, but there is a stark difference in what he brings to the team than matic.

Matic does £#%&! all and lose the ball. The Scottish Player wins the ball better and presses quicker than matic.

He also passed the ball much better than matic. Of course The Scottish Player also lost the ball , but the whole team is doing that. The Scottish Player brings something to this team. Matic brings £#%&! all.
Don't recall him losing the ball much.

But if we're going off that, Pogba is the worst for it. Did not miss seeing him create his own problems.
 
Unread 16-09-2019, 06:38 AM
Dasilvatwins
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cream
Don't recall him losing the ball much.

But if we're going off that, Pogba is the worst for it. Did not miss seeing him create his own problems.
With regards to misplacing passes. Like i said they all do, but matic doesnt really offer anything for the team with regards to playing better with him in the squad.

The Scottish Player pushes higher up and is generally quicker than matic. I know who i much rather have in the team

Pogba may lose the ball too, but atleast you get 2/3 chances created from him during a game
 
Unread 16-09-2019, 06:43 AM
Cream
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dasilvatwins
With regards to misplacing passes. Like i said they all do, but matic doesnt really offer anything for the team with regards to playing better with him in the squad.

The Scottish Player pushes higher up and is generally quicker than matic. I know who i much rather have in the team

Pogba may lose the ball too, but atleast you get 2/3 chances created from him during a game
Oh no doubt.

Matic was done last season, and to be fair it seems Ole knows it. If Fred steps up we could cobble together something workable. But Pogba playing the role Matic should be playing isn't likely to cut it.
 
Unread 16-09-2019, 07:00 AM
Dasilvatwins
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cream
Oh no doubt.

Matic was done last season, and to be fair it seems Ole knows it. If Fred steps up we could cobble together something workable. But Pogba playing the role Matic should be playing isn't likely to cut it.
Its a long season ahead, and there are atleast 4/5 positions open for new players to come in. Think we will have to grit our teeth and just hope we win. Doesnt matter how ugly, just win. Get a champions league spot for next year and give ole some funds in the summer.
 
Unread 16-09-2019, 10:36 AM
saayfooty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunk
We stopped giving it away and passing it out of play, we were no longer penned in our own half and we even offered a couple of mild threats purely by virtue of Matic not lumbering about failing to do his defensive work and giving it away every time he touched it either directly or by playing hospital passes. He’s £#%&!ing dire. Also, hooking Matic & Matameant The Scottish Player didn’t have to babysit him and could push on a bit safe in the knowledge Fred and Pereira can run, which led to him winning the free kick Rashford hit the bar with. Small things that were caused by Matic and Mata holding us back.
The Scottish Player babysitting players? lol give me a break.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patty_b
Sorry mate, I don't want you to think I'm picking on you or anything, but you're talking absolute shite.

You're anything but unbiased. Stop saying that you are. It's £#%&!ing ridiculous.

And as for your posts as a whole, everyone has an opinion on on football, and that's fine, but when I read some of your posts it's like you seem to think you have some sort of overall authority over what you see compared to other fans, and I don't think you do.

Also, two points behind City, level with arsenal and spurs and others. For a shit start to the season, we're not actually doing to badly.
Opinions are opinions my friend.

I may or may not be wrong. We shall see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dasilvatwins
Either youre Wumming or The Scottish Player stole your sweets when you were younger.

Nobody is saying The Scottish Player is this world class midfielder, but there is a stark difference in what he brings to the team than matic.

Matic does £#%&! all and lose the ball. The Scottish Player wins the ball better and presses quicker than matic.

He also passed the ball much better than matic. Of course The Scottish Player also lost the ball , but the whole team is doing that. The Scottish Player brings something to this team. Matic brings £#%&! all.
McT has no expectations or responsibilities yet. This will change eventually.

His grace period cannot last forever.
 
Unread 16-09-2019, 11:07 AM
utd99
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saayfooty

McT has no expectations or responsibilities yet. This will change eventually.

His grace period cannot last forever.
He’s played fewer than 40 top flight games in his whole career. There is absolutely no way to know for sure whether he’ll make the grade at this point, but to suggest he hasn’t shown enough to at least be optimistic is myopic and biased against the kid.
 
Unread 16-09-2019, 11:07 AM
NedKelly
 
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Saayfooty would have a point a year ago. But Matic has declined too much to justify starting. If we were to get a proper defensive midfielder who can sit deep and dictate play (Neves springs to mind) then we could talk about dropping The Scottish Player, til then we have to go with whatever the best option may be.
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