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Unread 08-01-2018, 11:14 AM
andyroo
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denis Irwell
Wasn’t there long enough to do a job

They were gone anyway, without Revie

Just like us minus Ferie
There are parallels

(Leeds did actually end up making the Euro final that year, and were robbed blind in it. Which was nice.)
 
Unread 08-01-2018, 11:17 AM
Denis Irwell
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyroo
There are parallels

(Leeds did actually end up making the Euro final that year, and were robbed blind in it. Which was nice.)

Still on auto pilot like dippers under kkk

Awesome corrupt stuff though. Deserved every bit. Really don’t think there’ll ever be a snide team like them.
 
Unread 08-01-2018, 11:31 AM
20 times
 
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Fergie’s last season saw us win the league by a big margin. Clough got Forest relegated in his last season.

Motwyw
 
Unread 08-01-2018, 11:51 AM
jem
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 20 times
Fergie’s last season saw us win the league by a big margin. Clough got Forest relegated in his last season.

Motwyw
we were awful in fergie's last season. this season's city would have been 30 points ahead. no challengers other than our own incompetence.
 
Unread 08-01-2018, 11:54 AM
sub three hours
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 92ToBury
I think you've answered it yourself. Fergie was achieving right up to the end rather than United loyally rewarding him for earlier work, like Wenger has been.

Fergie >>>>> Clough >> Wenger.
What about placing Mourinho with this lot?

He took Porto to the UEFA Cup then the European Cup (the last winner from outside Spain, Italy, Germany and England) and Inter (who knocked out Pep's Barca) so he can raise teams to conquer more skilled/expensive teams.


How about?

Fergie >>>>> Clough >>Mourinho >Wenger.
 
Unread 08-01-2018, 12:02 PM
shenwen
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denis Irwell
Absolute classic tbf

Shame about the football



Context Shenners, context.

They were far less than Leicester when BC took over

Genuine lej
Dont deny he was a great manager. Wouldn’t have said no in the late 70s/early 80s. But still 2 league titles over a career. Not bad. Not amazing. And it’s not like Forest didn’t have money to spend. Both when he took over and during the 80s. Never won consecutive league titles. Never won the FA cup.
 
Unread 08-01-2018, 01:24 PM
dunk
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sub three hours
What about placing Mourinho with this lot?

He took Porto to the UEFA Cup then the European Cup (the last winner from outside Spain, Italy, Germany and England) and Inter (who knocked out Pep's Barca) so he could* raise teams to conquer more skilled/expensive teams.


How about?

Fergie >>>>> Clough >>Mourinho >Wenger.
Corrected.
 
Unread 08-01-2018, 01:35 PM
suedeshoes
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jem
we were awful in fergie's last season.
Glass always empty.
 
Unread 08-01-2018, 01:58 PM
sub three hours
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunk
Corrected.



Perhaps the ultimate proof of greatness for any of them - or anyone for that matter - would be to win the World Cup with the shower of perpetual shite that is England.
 
Unread 08-01-2018, 02:38 PM
jem
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shenwen
2 league titles over a career. Not bad. Not amazing. And it’s not like Forest didn’t have money to spend.
he took two nothing teams and got them promoted before winning the league with each. it's not like taking over one of the biggest clubs in the world with a track record of success.

Quote:
Originally Posted by suedeshoes
Glass always empty.
not really. but we did win by default. apparently, this year isn't a competitive league. but when fergie won it, is was some kind of miracle*.


* actually, it was, with that £#%&!ing midfield.
 
Unread 08-01-2018, 03:25 PM
92ToBury
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sub three hours
What about placing Mourinho with this lot?

He took Porto to the UEFA Cup then the European Cup (the last winner from outside Spain, Italy, Germany and England) and Inter (who knocked out Pep's Barca) so he can raise teams to conquer more skilled/expensive teams.


How about?

Fergie >>>>> Clough >>Mourinho >Wenger.
Difficult to judge.

Mourinho's had far longer success than Clough; Porto winning the Champions League arguably bigger or at least as big as Forest winning the League? Success on a plate at Chelsea but he still had to deliver, as hundreds of millions of pounds spent failing at Spurs, Leeds, Liverpool and Newcastle has shown. Success at Inter again punching above their weight. *IF* we win a PL or CL with him in the next two years I'd put him clearly above Cloughie; at the moment, just a fraction above him.

The different eras make the comparisions harder, as per the Messi v Maradona debate.
 
Unread 08-01-2018, 03:31 PM
Wellinever
 
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Clough didn't do as well on his own, as he did when he was with Peter Taylor, they were a class act, at Forest and Derby.


"Now listen here young man, let me tell you, I always discuss ideas with my players, then we do as I say"
 
Unread 08-01-2018, 03:50 PM
LFOD
 
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he didn't have the luxury of buying loads of foreign players but he lost his nut later. bought trevor for 1m a first and then claimed he didn't have the money. great manager , great character.
 
Unread 08-01-2018, 03:51 PM
RemisMoses
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wellinever
Clough didn't do as well on his own, as he did when he was with Peter Taylor, they were a class act, at Forest and Derby.


The Damned United was a good film wasn't it

Never has it been more apt to say ' There will only ever be one Brian Clough' I loved him.
 
Unread 08-01-2018, 03:59 PM
Wellinever
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RemisMoses
The Damned United was a good film wasn't it

Never has it been more apt to say ' There will only ever be one Brian Clough' I loved him.


Yes that film was good, perhaps you had to have lived through those days to appreciate it? Clough was another manager who should have had the England job, but never did!
 
Unread 08-01-2018, 04:02 PM
Denis Irwell
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LFOD
he didn't have the luxury of buying loads of foreign players but he lost his nut later. bought trevor for 1m a first and then claimed he didn't have the money. great manager , great character.
Exception rather than the rule and relatively late in his career

His most influential players were either past it (Mackay) or more often, nobodies, Burns, McGovern, Gemmill, Robertson, Hector, O’Hare, Hinton, Rioch, Wood#@&%!, Birtles etc
 
Unread 08-01-2018, 04:27 PM
LFOD
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denis Irwell
Exception rather than the rule and relatively late in his career

His most influential players were either past it (Mackay) or more often, nobodies, Burns, McGovern, Gemmill, Robertson, Hector, O’Hare, Hinton, Rioch, Woodc**k, Birtles etc
right - especially at Derby. He bought Francis for his EC wins although he didn't play much through the middle. f***ing Birtles the name still haunts me!

Too bad he couldn't have played himself in the movie. His ego was as wide as the screen.But the drunken fool played some nice football. I hated them and the dippers during that time.
 
Unread 08-01-2018, 05:06 PM
red in cumbria
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wellinever
Yes that film was good, perhaps you had to have lived through those days to appreciate it? Clough was another manager who should have had the England job, but never did!
My chief recollection of it was making the BC/PT relationship almost homoerotic, and maybe there was a grain of truth in that. Clough reportedly cried for days after Taylor died.
 
Unread 08-01-2018, 05:50 PM
S/Side.Red
 
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Clough’s achievements in isolation are unmatched by anyone in British football history as far as I’m aware. Taking two seperate clubs from the second division to national champions, the latter to back-to-back European Cups, and people are downplaying it ffs

How you assess the greatest manager depends on your criteria. Clough was unable to achieve the longevity and re-cycling of Ferguson. But his isolated achievements are, by far, more remarkable than any of Fergie’s trophies. Meanwhile, someone like Mourinho has done neither, but his ability to move around Europe instantly adapting and being successful is something arguably Clough and Fergie would have struggled with.
 
Unread 08-01-2018, 05:57 PM
Clarkie
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S/Side.Red
Clough’s achievements in isolation are unmatched by anyone in British football history as far as I’m aware. Taking two seperate clubs from the second division to national champions, the latter to back-to-back European Cups, and people are downplaying it ffs

How you assess the greatest manager depends on your criteria. Clough was unable to achieve the longevity and re-cycling of Ferguson. But his isolated achievements are, by far, more remarkable than any of Fergie’s trophies. Meanwhile, someone like Mourinho has done neither, but his ability to move around Europe instantly adapting and being successful is something arguably Clough and Fergie would have struggled with.

Postage.
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