Sunday's Football 18/8

Originally Posted by Sparky***

Imho handball is handball. It's like saying a foul doesn't count if you were going for the ball and didn't mean it. Or an own goal shouldn't count because you didn't mean to put it in your own net. Doesn't matter, the ball was going somewhere and your hand stopped it or diverted it from it's course = handball.

Not really like that at all though is it

Originally Posted by Sparky***

I'm just watching that turnip eating mong Holloway banging on about the blatant handball that Palace conceded.

One thing that annoys me about handball in football is this idea that if you didn't mean it, it doesn't count. If a goalkeeper charged 10 yards outside of his area and did that, it would be a red card and hand ball. No arguments. Imho if it hits your hand in the area it should be a pen, end of question.

Absolutely. Players very rarely mean to foul anyone, especially not the area. The law states it has to be intentional, but, unofficially, its whether or not it was avoidable.

I've often argued that intent should be removed from handball. Would improve the game imho

Originally Posted by armchair

I've often argued that intent should be removed from handball. Would improve the game imho

Unofficially has been, tbh. Today the example. Nothing the lad could do, he's clearly trying to block it legally, happens to hit his hand.

It's a nonsense and it never ceases to amaze me how many people go along with it, tbh.

That carrick handball decision at chelsea still haunts me rediculous

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Unofficially has been, tbh. Today the example. Nothing the lad could do, he's clearly trying to block it legally, happens to hit his hand.

It's a nonsense and it never ceases to amaze me how many people go along with it, tbh.

So are you saying had he known someone kicking the ball at his arm would be a penalty he wouldn't have done differently?

I'd rather it a clear and simple rule than jt getting away with playing fly keepe because no-one can prove intent and he's the england captain.

Intent is like artistic merit i.e. bullshit

Originally Posted by The Return of JC

Absolutely. Players very rarely mean to foul anyone

Originally Posted by armchair

So are you saying had he known someone kicking the ball at his arm would be a penalty he wouldn't have done differently?

I'd rather it a clear and simple rule than jt getting away with playing fly keepe because no-one can prove intent and he's the england captain.

Intent is like artistic merit i.e. bullshit

I think it is clear and simple.

1. Did it his his hand?
2. Did he mean it?

Yes to both or no handball. Easy.

It stands to reason in a game like football that the ball will hit players on the arm, just like it will hit them everywhere else. The idea is that they don't use their arm intentionally. So it hitting their arm without intent should not be an offence.

The idea of a complete no intent rule is mad. A half-decent player will win ten pens a game aiming for the defender's arm from two yards

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Unofficially has been, tbh. Today the example. Nothing the lad could do, he's clearly trying to block it legally, happens to hit his hand.

It's a nonsense and it never ceases to amaze me how many people go along with it, tbh.

Agree you see a lot given/appealed for when the balls just whacked at a players arm, but it's hard to judge when it becomes intentional. With that one today, the player's intention is to block the cross- and of he runs out with his arms up then he's making himself larger to block the ball. Which is therefore intentional is it not? Could argue it was natural body shape etc, but it's hard to judge.

There was one with Micah Richards last season (or the season before) where he ran out and flew out at the ball to block it and had his arms above his head...ball hit his hands and pen was rightfully given. He intended to block the ball and putting his arms up like that made himself a lot bigger. Had a few mongs at the time saying it wasn't intentional etc.

Hard for the refs to call. Think it's all about natural or unnatural arm position...

Originally Posted by Sparky***

Imho handball is handball. It's like saying a foul doesn't count if you were going for the ball and didn't mean it. Or an own goal shouldn't count because you didn't mean to put it in your own net. Doesn't matter, the ball was going somewhere and your hand stopped it or diverted it from it's course = handball.

I understand your point but those are two terrible analogies. :shakehead:

Originally Posted by The Return of JC

Absolutely. Players very rarely mean to foul anyone, especially not the area. The law states it has to be intentional, but, unofficially, its whether or not it was avoidable.

Where? Law 12 only states:

The following conditions must be met for an offence to be considered a foul:
• it must be committed by a player
• it must occur on the field of play
• it must occur while the ball is in play

And players foul intentionally in every game. Professional fouls, frustration fouls etc.

Originally Posted by dragflick

Agree you see a lot given/appealed for when the balls just whacked at a players arm, but it's hard to judge when it becomes intentional. With that one today, the player's intention is to block the cross- and of he runs out with his arms up then he's making himself larger to block the ball. Which is therefore intentional is it not? Could argue it was natural body shape etc, but it's hard to judge.

There was one with Micah Richards last season (or the season before) where he ran out and flew out at the ball to block it and had his arms above his head...ball hit his hands and pen was rightfully given. He intended to block the ball and putting his arms up like that made himself a lot bigger. Had a few mongs at the time saying it wasn't intentional etc.

Hard for the refs to call. Think it's all about natural or unnatural arm position...

I think if you can't tell you don't give it, same as other decisions. You need to be certain.

Agger yesterday was a pen. I think he was trying 'make himself bigger' which is a good way of putting it. But that one today, no way.

FAO Saffers:

Quintero scored 30 seconds into his Porto league debut, btw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XavpuSA1m3o

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

I think if you can't tell you don't give it, same as other decisions. You need to be certain.

Agger yesterday was a pen. I think he was trying 'make himself bigger' which is a good way of putting it. But that one today, no way.

Yeah, agreed with those two.

Originally Posted by Grimson

I understand your point but those are two terrible analogies. :shakehead:

Yep.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

If you take out the notion of intent, there is literally no point in the rule. The handball rule was not designed to stop the ball hitting someone's hand; it was designed to stop people using their hand intentionally. If it's not intentional then it should be the same as hitting any other part of the body, otherwise you're essentially punishing someone for something they had absolutely no control over.

Also, without intent you may as well not bother crossing or shooting - just kick it against the defenders' arm from close-range.

Not seen Holloway's comment, but I thought it was a shit decision.

agree that there has to be intent, but intent needs to be better defined. any stretching attempt to block is a deliberate act. if you can't do that without your arms sticking out then you shouldn't try that sort of block. you can argue that if you do and it hits your arm it's deliberate - you have deliberately risked it hitting your arm. if players are allowed to do that then they will all do a schmeichel star man to block shots and crosses ffs.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

Yep.

Take a big man to admit that.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

agree that there has to be intent, but intent needs to be better defined. any stretching attempt to block is a deliberate act. if you can't do that without your arms sticking out then you shouldn't try that sort of block. you can argue that if you do and it hits your arm it's deliberate - you have deliberately risked it hitting your arm. if players are allowed to do that then they will all do a schmeichel star man to block shots and crosses ffs.

Agree - thats handball all day long.