Pogback: Part II

Originally Posted by jem

well, is it dunk-a-bunk or bunk-a-dunk?

pogba has never looked amazing. he has had a few moments and that is all.

sometimes, he shrugs players off like children and plays hollywood balls. but most of the time, in every game, he is just lolloping around being lazy and inattentive. he has some physical attributes, but not the mental attributes required to be great. he is a languid dilettante and he needs to work way, way harder and pay £#%&!ing attention (which I don't think he can).

the idea that when players around him were shit, it was unfair to expect him to carry the team, but now that they are good, he doesn't need to carry the team... is just a cop out. he is as far from bryan robson as you can get.

he has underwhelmed on the pitch. throughout his entire united career. he's just a bum.

not only that, but playing him in a midfield two makes ole look like an idiot. and makes idiots complain about matic.

we have every right to expect more. much more. commitment, consistent application and a touch of genius every now and then. not £#%&!ing losing the ball on the halfway line and jogging back or deliberately moving 15 yards away from your man on corners.

knuckle down or £#%&! off.

Close the thread.

Originally Posted by Dr Stranger

This was a response to someone wondering whether or not Pogba was playing well right now. I was merely speculating about how much of that was down to him or how much was us just generally looking better.

I think he's playing well and I think the team is playing well.

Some players lift others, some dont. That's more about the type of player and personality they are.

"Everyone knows what paul wants" is the kind of comment I'd expect people to dislike, but also recognise it's all part of agent's bullshit, that there are numerous examples of that kind of stuff down the years and that it should be taken with a pinch of salt.

I certainly wouldn't expect grown men with years of experience watching United to start proclaiming he should never play for the club again because of it.

He literally said he wanted to leave in the video bunks posted.

Originally Posted by windy waffles

He literally said he wanted to leave in the video bunks posted.

Full video evidence....

Originally Posted by jem

well, is it dunk-a-bunk or bunk-a-dunk?

pogba has never looked amazing. he has had a few moments and that is all.

sometimes, he shrugs players off like children and plays hollywood balls. but most of the time, in every game, he is just lolloping around being lazy and inattentive. he has some physical attributes, but not the mental attributes required to be great. he is a languid dilettante and he needs to work way, way harder and pay £#%&!ing attention (which I don't think he can).

the idea that when players around him were shit, it was unfair to expect him to carry the team, but now that they are good, he doesn't need to carry the team... is just a cop out. he is as far from bryan robson as you can get.

he has underwhelmed on the pitch. throughout his entire united career. he's just a bum.

not only that, but playing him in a midfield two makes ole look like an idiot. and makes idiots complain about matic.

we have every right to expect more. much more. commitment, consistent application and a touch of genius every now and then. not £#%&!ing losing the ball on the halfway line and jogging back or deliberately moving 15 yards away from your man on corners.

knuckle down or £#%&! off.

Some sense in there jem, some %@#$&!s too.

Agreed on the knuckle down or £#%&! off.

Originally Posted by dunk

Some sense in there jem, some %@#$&!s too.

Agreed on the knuckle down or £#%&! off.

Takes a big man to admit you were wrong.

Originally Posted by windy waffles

Takes a big man to admit you were wrong.

Originally Posted by dunk

Agreed on the knuckle down or £#%&! off.

just to be clear, it was aimed at pogba.

Originally Posted by jem

just to be clear, it was aimed at pogba.

Could apply it to yourself?

Originally Posted by windy waffles

Close the thread.



He literally said he wanted to leave in the video bunks posted.

I've responded to that further back mate

Originally Posted by utd99

Hey, you’re perfectly at liberty to excuse it all you like; I just don’t understand what the “grown men” nonsense has to to with anything. All people can do is comment on what they’re witnessing, and what I’ve witnessed leaves a bad taste tbh.

And you can dismiss it as nonsense too, if you wish. People can comment on what they see, but they can also draw their own conclusions. It seems you and others have concluded that the only right reaction is to be outraged.

This just surprises me.

We've all seen enough football and transfer balls down the years with Beckham, Keane, Rooney, Ronaldo over various summers to be able to realise a lot of what is said doesn't mean much. Things are said in haste, misquoted, coaxed, often retracted, minds are changed and players can go on to have many more successful years.

It can also mean they want to leave and have no respect for the club.

But none of it is terminal and 99.9% of comes from media sources where United turmoil sells.

Well reading today's contributions on this thread has been fun

Originally Posted by Dr Stranger

I've responded to that further back mate



And you can dismiss it as nonsense too, if you wish. People can comment on what they see, but they can also draw their own conclusions. It seems you and others have concluded that the only right reaction is to be outraged.

This just surprises me.

We've all seen enough football and transfer balls down the years with Beckham, Keane, Rooney, Ronaldo over various summers to be able to realise a lot of what is said doesn't mean much. Things are said in haste, misquoted, coaxed, often retracted, minds are changed and players can go on to have many more successful years.

It can also mean they want to leave and have no respect for the club.

But none of it is terminal and 99.9% of comes from media sources where United turmoil sells.

Outraged? Where do you get that from? Disappointed, resigned etc maybe. Wanting players who want to play for the club and are proud to do so? £#%&!ing hell, shoot us down.

Again, to bring you back to the start, people wanting him to leave is perfectly justified. I just can’t understand anyone fawning over him? Oh, did no one say that? Who cares.

Originally Posted by Hyman_Roth

Outraged? Where do you get that from? Disappointed, resigned etc maybe. Wanting players who want to play for the club and are proud to do so? f***ing hell, shoot us down.

Again, to bring you back to the start, people wanting him to leave is perfectly justified. I just can’t understand anyone fawning over him? Oh, did no one say that? Who cares.

Outraged enough to never want him to play for the club again.

Bunks calling him a coward, you've called his behaviour 'unforgivable'.

Rather OTT in my opinion. But hey ho

If people want him to go, I get that. Don't have an issue with it. He's underperformed and comes with a lot of baggage, I just think some of the conclusions drawn from media tattle - that we all have enough experience with down the years with other players - is a bit much.

Dunno about anyone else, but I'm certainly not fawning over him. I'm glad he and us are playing well, but I'm not holding my breath that it will last

If he keeps his head down, plays well and stays, I'm sure few would have an issue with that..

Originally Posted by Dr Stranger

Outraged enough to never want him to play for the club again.

Bunks calling him a coward, you've called his behaviour 'unforgivable'.

Rather OTT in my opinion. But hey ho

If people want him to go, I get that. Don't have an issue with it. He's underperformed and comes with a lot of baggage, I just think some of the conclusions drawn from media tattle - that we all have enough experience with down the years with other players - is a bit much.

Dunno about anyone else, but I'm certainly not fawning over him. I'm glad he and us are playing well, but I'm not holding my breath that it will last

If he keeps his head down, plays well and stays, I'm sure few would have an issue with that..

Apology accepted.

Originally Posted by Hyman_Roth

Apology accepted.

Thought I'd done something 'unforgivable' then.

Originally Posted by Dr Stranger

Thought I'd done something 'unforgivable' then.

More outrageous than unforgivable I’d say, but I want to see what the media say before I make a final determination.

Originally Posted by utd99

More outrageous than unforgivable I’d say, but I want to see what the media say before I make a final determination.

You mean the media that tells you about it in a way it chooses?

Are we all just pretending the media don't make shit up and spin things now?

People seem very easily pushed by a few trivial stories.

Anyway. Done with this one.

I hope Pogba stays and does well. If he leaves, I still hope we do well.

Now, back to the games thread to find out when we play Norwich in the FA Cup.

What’s the media got to do with it? We watch him play and we hear direct quotes from his entourage - meaning him. Surely we’re equipped to draw our own conclusions just from that, no? Who cares what the Sun and Mail say?

Originally Posted by utd99

What’s the media got to do with it? We watch him play and we hear direct quotes from his entourage - meaning him. Surely we’re equipped to draw our own conclusions just from that, no? Who cares what the Sun and Mail say?

Because that's where we consume all this stuff.

You're missing my point. I'm saying people SHOULD draw their own conclusions, but often don't. Just buying into whatever the narrative is presented by the source. Which, in our case, is usually negative.

And 'direct sources'.... you mean in interviews and sound bites given to the media?

Again, are we seriously suggesting that the way we receive this apparent information isnt tampered with or misconstrued?

It's all so often:

Pogba: "maybe it's time for a new challenge"

Headline: "pogba wants to leave Manchester united"

Reaction: THE BASTARD!

And apparently, this is the only reaction we should have ....but we should also draw our own conclusions

Not only that, how many examples do we need down the years of exactly this kind of thing with agents, damming quotes and then the player goes on to have a good career with us.

Keane, Beckham, Rooney, Ronaldo have all, combined, handed in transfer requests, "only god knows" their way through interviews and not followed through.

They may have earned more patience, but the dynamic is the same.

I'm just surprised by the reaction and the notion there can only really be one reaction.

In short, I just can't get that wound up by a series of isolated quotes that I have no idea of the source or if they're true.

If you want to, go for it.

Done on this one. Lost too much time on this yesterday

Again, these are direct quotes from PP and his inner circle, not a Michael Moore documentary. This theme that people are not smart enough to know when they’re being led around by the nose is old and tired, and a little bit insulting tbh. It’s 2020 mate, everyone has their own little media outlet these days. These are their words not Jamie Jacksons. Their motives don’t need much interpreting.

Originally Posted by Dr Stranger

I just can't get that wound up by a series of isolated quotes that I have no idea of the source or if they're true.

A video interview isn't an isolated quote, especially if it is backed by your brother's and agents across many media platforms...

https://youtu.be/_cp4NdWnSbs

#IsolatedCoward

Originally Posted by utd99

Again, these are direct quotes from PP and his inner circle, not a Michael Moore documentary. This theme that people are not smart enough to know when they’re being led around by the nose is old and tired, and a little bit insulting tbh. It’s 2020 mate, everyone has their own little media outlet these days. These are their words not Jamie Jacksons. Their motives don’t need much interpreting.

I've just said people should draw their own conclusions. The issue in most cases, is that people dont.

I'm also saying that in the cases of these players and agents £#%&!ing around (which I'm not denying they do) it's not as terminal as we think. As history tells us.

You're missing the point of what I'm saying. Either that or I'm not expressing myself very clearly.

Either way, have a good one.