*Official* Villa v United Match Thread - Teams and Value

Originally Posted by Liu Jian

Our central midfield's been outplayed by Sunderland and Villa, struggled for long periods against Fulham and West Brom....tells it's own story.

If Hargreaves is binned in the Summer, we might need a midfield destroyer and a creator with Fletcher as the second midfielder when we play 4-3-3. You've got players like Eikrem and Morrison, but Fergie clearly doesn't think they're good enough yet. And of course Cleverly who can't get in the Wigan team.

Wrong.

He wasn't getting picked for a bit, but he's started their last few games. And their results have improved. Haven't seen much of them but I'd like to think the two events are connected.

Originally Posted by Coracao

Wrong.

Ah, I see he started today, that's only 5 starts all season though. Has he been or injured, or rotated?

Either way, he'll need more time to demonstrate that he's the answer.

Originally Posted by Liu Jian

Ah, I see he started today, that's only 5 starts all season though. Has he been or injured, or rotated?

Either way, he'll need more time to demonstrate that he's the answer.

Started the last 3 games I think, didnt he have an injury?

Martinez isnt stupid enough to let Cleverly get into a giuseppe rossi situatio

Originally Posted by Liu Jian

Ah, I see he started today, that's only 5 starts all season though. Has he been or injured, or rotated?

Either way, he'll need more time to demonstrate that he's the answer.

He has had injuries. In addition, his cause probably isn't helped by the fact that he may be recalled.

Martinez's comments last month;

Wigan Athletic boss Roberto Martinez admits they face losing Tom Cleverley back to Manchester United in January.

Cleverley could be hitting the big time sooner than next summer after United boss Sir Alex Ferguson revealed he would ‘probably’ be recalling Cleverley from his loan spell at the DW ahead of the second half of this campaign.

Martinez and Wigan would be powerless to prevent this happening – and the Latics boss is not surprised that Ferguson is considering such a move.

He told the Wigan Evening Post: “Obviously the injury to Antonio Valencia has increased the chance of Tom going back to United.

“There has been no contact between the two sides, but it is only natural what is occurring because Tom is such a good player.

“We all know how highly United rate Tom – that’s why we had to do everything we could to get him here in the first place.

“I have always said that we have to enjoy him for every day he is here – just as we want Tom to enjoy being here at Wigan Athletic.

“And that’s all that matters, for however long that period might be.

“It’s only a matter of time before Tom is playing at the very top level with United. It’s not if, but when.”

Originally Posted by Coracao

He has had injuries. In addition, his cause probably isn't helped by the fact that he may be recalled.

Martinez's comments last month;

Honest question, do you think he's better than Gibson?

Originally Posted by Liu Jian

Honest question, do you think he's better than Gibson?

I'm better than Gibson.

Originally Posted by maaan_U

Was it a penalty?

I am aporetic to say the least.

I'm anispeptic, frasmotic, even compunctuous that you have been caused such pericombobulation.

Originally Posted by Dueling Banjos

I'm anispeptic, frasmotic, even compunctuous that you have been caused such pericombobulation.

What a strike by Machedaaaaa!!!!!!!

A thunderbolt worthy of the mighty Batigol!

Originally Posted by believe

he'd buy berbatov. what a £#%&!ing useless sack of shit that lazy @#%&! is the sooner he is £#%&!ed off out of united the better. for all those who have defended him and called us haters ha ha £#%&!ing ha.

Very childish post, bellers

If Berbs could get his head right, he would be one of THE best players in the world. Seriously.

Originally Posted by red in cumbria

Very childish post, bellers

If Berbs could get his head right, he would be one of THE best players in the world. Seriously.

so would ronaldinho

And Rooney wouldn't be.

There lies the difference.

we were dominated in midfield today, but a more studied analysis reveals that its not simply a case of Carrick/Fletcher playing shit and being bossed by kids.

The real root of our problems stemmed from a few things, and I will list them in order.

1) Berbatov - £#%&!ing pathetic today. Not only did he provide nothing, he was actually a disruptive influence, arguing, sulking, attracting the ball and then losing it, taking up space, getting in the way, confusing our own players who didn't know what he was gonna do with or without the ball. As far as I'm concerned I wouldn't mind if he never played for us again, would gladly see us try to blood Hernandez and Macheda instead.

2) Wes Brown - for all those who slag off O'Shea, today we saw what a shit player really looks like. He's clearly not match fit, not suggesting he's past it but he was not ready for first team action and was way off the pace. Houllier had obviously instructed his team to attack him on the break as well as Friedel was throwing it out there at every opportunity. This weakness down the right was so bad it was as if we had no one there. As if we were defending a castle and one of its walls had fallen down. It reduced Nani's effectiveness down the right and allowed Villa to really put our midfield under pressure and get through us at will. Not only was he off the pace, but he was doing stupid shit trying to make up for it which is alarming for an experienced pro, giving away the penalty ffs.

3) 4 in the middle vs 5. When you play 4 vs 5 you have to move quick and you need instant outlets up front and something to fall back on behind you. With Berbatov £#%&!ing about up front and Brown resembling a massive hole we suddenly looked very one dimensional and predictable. Made it easy for Villa to press us and in turn made us all the more shaky.

No surprise that we transformed as soon as we took berbatov off, one move which added an outlet and removed a distraction. Nani went left where he had a more solid platform to play from and we started to motor. Still weak down the right but at least we could make the ball stick for longer periods.

surprised chicharito came off but surprised at the impact obertan and macheda had. great finish from the italian, lets hope he can kick on now.

Originally Posted by Tronics

whats up with Carrick btw? seems to be a passenger of the game more often ala Gibson

what's wrong with your eyesight?

Originally Posted by borsuk

.......evra (who was absolutely shocking) ........evra was spectacularly shite. ripped to pieces by albrighton (who looks a player) is one thing, he has his games like that, but to consistently fail to track runners is another. watch his 'running' back from the halfway line for villa's second, watching the villa lad go past him, just a few minutes after he'd let them have a free header. plenty of other examples as well, his defending was £#%&!ing disgraceful today.

evra is shattered. there isn't a more dynamic left-back in football, but he is running on empty. since 3/4 way through last season. two weeks in the states and he'll be fine.

Originally Posted by Coracao

Evra is probably £#%&!ed, because has plays through injuries and rarely ever has a rest.

oh, hello......

Originally Posted by maaan_U

Was it a penalty?

I am aporetic to say the least.

yes, it was a penalty. sadly, because rio was actually winning the ball.

Originally Posted by andyroo

Smalling throwing his weight around as an attacking midfielder was unorthodox to say the least, but hey, it worked.

fergie might as well sell gibson, for all the trust he has in him. he definitely should have come on. smalling isn't even a good defender. he certainly isn't a match-winning midfielder.



we didn't play that badly, we just don't have much idea against packed defences uinless we are desperate. we should have had that game won before villa hit the woodwork. carrick looked good carrying the ball forward first half - when he lost the ball, he made damn sure he won it back. nani didn't play badly, but he gave up every time he was touched - too busy looking for free kicks. which we should have had, but you can't play like that with a @#%&! of a referee who is giving you nothing. the understanding up front was dire - cheech, berbatov and nani should really be introduced to each other in training.

giggs, scholes, hargreaves, rooney, rafael, valencia.... we would have walked that game normally. villa had absolutely no belief and no real prospect of doing anything, but we let them build up a head of steam in the second half. fergie once again brought the wrong players off. park was having a stinker, same as wednesday. he must have photos.

Originally Posted by borsuk

fabio has appeared at rb a few times, injuries have held him back more than anything else.

brown is not really a right back, though he performed tremendously for us there in the treble season. he's a centre half who would have developed into a first choice player for us but for constant injuries. a crying shame tbh. he's a decent enough reserve rb but we miss rafael.

both full backs were poor today. evra was as bad defensively as i can remember, terrible covering and beaten by albrighton several times. i don't think our central midfield was a problem, though with both nani and berbatov not at the races there was a glaring lack of creativity. our problems were out wide, not through the middle.

villa's youngsters were very impressive, a credit to the club as throb said.

the full back position on either side is the biggest headache united have had over the past however long...

the fitness of the da silvas is a big handicap, particularly to evra who has been overused for a year now. people forget that he was used continually during the defensive injury crisis for example. he basically needs a rest now and again but can't get it. the one player above all that united could do with is another denis irwin; someone who can play on either side, who's good on the ball and who gives you 8 out of 10 every week. at right back rafael should be in his second full season as first choice but has only made about 50 appearances for the 1st team. thankfully he only has a dead leg this time, but the injuries to him and evra at city cost us today. the threat we face down the sides, particularly down the right, has cost us plenty of goals this season in the absence of Valencia, of course. On the left evra needed to get his head down after a poor end to last season and the shenanigans of the summer. the lack of any real dynamic back-up in his position is a big problem. seem to have been pointing at full-back cover as united's biggest weakness for at least half a decade now. it's one of the most important and demanding positions in football though, and United certainly aren't alone in having to rely too often on mere fill-ins too often because of the stresses placed on the first choicers.

never seen so many causts on one thread...I mean since the last matchday thread obviously...slapped arse @#%&!s galore

so we played shit today for 80 mins but at least we had the balls to come back and rescue the most unlikely point of our season instead of giving it away a la Everton and West Brom...that coomeback is the kind of thing that champions do remember


I see Brown is getting slated and rightly so ...makes a change for me getting slated for saying how shit he is, he's neverr been good enough he's been a liability for years and hopefully the rumours of him going to Sunderland in January are true

can't believe the slagging of Fletcher ...it;s like three years ago when he was the £#%&!wits weapon of choice...he's played nearly every game this season
and in a lot of those games he's been our ONLY midfielder often taking on 2 or three players the whole game because he's got no support and running his arse into the ground for 90 mins

and he did brilliantly to set up the first goal today, Carrick wasn't great but he was like Tostao compared to Park...wtf Obertan wasn't on instead of that clown from the start

Nani was back to being a dick but thank god he was on the park to make the equaliser...Berbatov had his first shit game in a while and as usual it's all his fault..silly @#%&!s

LittlePea worried me more he was awful

plenty of plus points...Rio and Vidic were great and drove us on to fightback, Macheda's goal was stunning and will hopefully kickstart his career again and Obertan was a real threat and continues to improve

great goon when Vidic scored as well.....

Originally Posted by jem

smalling isn't even a good defender. he certainly isn't a match-winning midfielder

Jem, mate, you're a #@&%!

The same things being said post match, there's only one solution to the current state and that's cold hard cash to buy in new players. Is it there? I £#%&!ing doubt it. Can't be arsed wasting my time with it anymore.

That said, I enjoyed the match. Not much between the two first half and Villa then dominated for 30mins of the second. Have to agree with Fergie though, another 5mins and we'd have won. Still, no excuse for only upping the tempo for 15 of 90mins.

Albrighton was a joy to watch. A breath of fresh air, an old fashioned winger who took Evra to the cleaners. Having seen a bit of them in the last 18months those kids have put the players out injured to shame. Best performance from them I've seen in ages. Stick with them, had it been the likes of Reo Coker and Petrov (who has been dire for a while now) I suspect it wouldn't have played out like it did.

Oblong's cameo was a bright spot, nearly won it for Utd too. Macheda's strike was excellent.

Originally Posted by PaulParkersPubes

Jem, mate, you're a #@&%!

all you're saying there is that you are pretty much wrong about everything.

I wouldn't want to be your guru.