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Unread 06-09-2008, 12:29 PM
Fatboy Shrek
 
Default This director of football business

Makes sense IMO. I know a manager knows best about is current players, but if a manager says he needs a forward then there are better placed people than a mad Geordie to go and scout the best players. He should get a say when the director of football or whoever has found a certain player, but apart from giving his input, he should concentrate on the side.

Did they expect Keegan to run every aspect of the club?
 
Unread 06-09-2008, 12:33 PM
Sloane
 
Default

thats why you employ scouts
 
Unread 06-09-2008, 12:37 PM
Fatboy Shrek
 
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Who effectively work for the manager. DoF is detached from the manager and rightfully so. He can make big decisions himself and as long as a good relationship exists between him and the manager, they can work seperately and together.

Clubs like Newcastle, West Ham, City etc need someone to do this for them as their managers are/were all relatively simple Brits in an ever changing football environment.
 
Unread 06-09-2008, 12:43 PM
Sloane
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatboy Shrek
Who effectively work for the manager. DoF is detached from the manager and rightfully so. He can make big decisions himself and as long as a good relationship exists between him and the manager, they can work seperately and together.

Clubs like Newcastle, West Ham, City etc need someone to do this for them as their managers are/were all relatively simple Brits in an ever changing football environment.
yep dennis wise is much more than that

yeh scouts effectively work for the manager, but whats wrong with that, he tells the scouts what type of player he wants with what qualities and they go and look at it. then they come back with their findings and the manager makes the decision. that seems te best way to me.

but i dont disagree with you completely because i think it totally depends on two people and also how the chairman manages the situation
 
Unread 06-09-2008, 12:58 PM
borsuk
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatboy Shrek
Clubs like Newcastle, West Ham, City etc need someone to do this for them as their managers are/were all relatively simple Brits in an ever changing football environment.
what does that mean? why should a british manager be any more simple than a french manager?

in britain the manager traditionally has more authority than in, say, spain, where there is a lot more interference from the chairman. part of this, no doubt, comes from the nature of the spanish ownership model, where elected presidents must justify their position and so want to deliver signings etc. but i think the failure of the dof model in britain comes more from the fact that the dofs have been pretty poor quality: that guy at spurs or dennis f***ing wise . add to that the fact that british managers are not used to dividing responsibility and you have a recipe for conflict. one last point is that the dof should, logically, be the point of continuity - the long-term planner, if you like. more often that not, though, the manager is at the club first and the dof is brought in over his head, creating discord and uncertainty; then the dof needs to stake out his place, creating more discord.

i don't think it's a bad model, tbh. i just think in britain it's been badly done with the wrong personnel.
 
Unread 06-09-2008, 12:59 PM
Gypsum Fantastic
 
Default

Just reading an interview with Toshack and I'm thinking perhaps this is one of the reasons that England have underperformed for a long time.

Basically he says that on the continent - directors, owners who have you sign the players and coaches coach. they'd sign six and he'd pick two or someat.

Thus when they get to international level coaches are used to working with what they have and formulating a system that works for those players. rather than picking the type of players they want to work in a system that they already have in mind.
 
Unread 06-09-2008, 01:17 PM
Fatboy Shrek
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by borsuk
what does that mean? why should a british manager be any more simple than a french manager?

in britain the manager traditionally has more authority than in, say, spain, where there is a lot more interference from the chairman. part of this, no doubt, comes from the nature of the spanish ownership model, where elected presidents must justify their position and so want to deliver signings etc. but i think the failure of the dof model in britain comes more from the fact that the dofs have been pretty poor quality: that guy at spurs or dennis f***ing wise . add to that the fact that british managers are not used to dividing responsibility and you have a recipe for conflict. one last point is that the dof should, logically, be the point of continuity - the long-term planner, if you like. more often that not, though, the manager is at the club first and the dof is brought in over his head, creating discord and uncertainty; then the dof needs to stake out his place, creating more discord.

i don't think it's a bad model, tbh. i just think in britain it's been badly done with the wrong personnel.
I essentially meant i wouldn't trust my money with Curbishley, Hughes and especially Keegan.
 
Unread 06-09-2008, 01:44 PM
borsuk
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatboy Shrek
I essentially meant i wouldn't trust my money with Curbishley, Hughes and especially Keegan.
fair enough. i was thinking of houlier, benitez and gross
 
Unread 06-09-2008, 01:51 PM
Fatboy Shrek
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by borsuk
fair enough. i was thinking of houlier, benitez and gross
Touché
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