Ole has to be sacked TONIGHT

Originally Posted by Chris Quayd

It's not just Pogba, it's the favourites that are guaranteed a start no matter how bad their form is. There's not much point having a squad if you do not use it outside of league cup games.



It's fine to think Bailly is shit, but then why did he get a four year deal last season? You can't complain about backups if you are talking them up, giving them contracts or in the case of VDB signing them.

It almost feels as if Ole isn't making these decisions...we have so many 'misfits'

Pogba, Martial, dvdB, Bailly, Jones, Dalot,

Originally Posted by redhegemony

It almost feels as if Ole isn't making these decisions...we have so many 'misfits'

Pogba, Martial, dvdB, Bailly, Jones, Dalot,

Originally Posted by Patty_b

I'm not saying it is, but there seems to be a lot of fans who think that if we just replace the manager the season will be 'saved', and that the squad we have can compete to win the league.

It's nowhere near as simple as that. By all means replace the manager, but if we're going down that route again, we need to do it properly. Either recruit a proper director of football who oversees any and all building of the team and style of play, and bring in managers we think can carry out the vision. Or bring in a manager that we're happy to properly back to build a team that he wants long term.

Instead of doing either of those things, we're doing the shit bits of both. We're cycling through managers, while backing them to build their own squads. It's £#%&!ing stupid. If we're going to cycle through managers, get someone in place above the managers to take charge of all the recruitment and how we're going to play.

If we're going to bring in a manager to build his own team, we can't start chopping and changing them every few years when things look shit.

If we sack Ole and bring in a manager just because he's won some things and expect him to get this squad to play the football he wants them to play, and compete at being the best because we've spent a lot on players wanted by other managers, then it's destined to fail.

Fair enough and agreed.

No manager comes and just works exactly with what they’ve got. I think there’s a happy medium to he had where we let someone do their thing, but that thing isn’t entirely removed from what the current manager is doing.

Take Rodgers as an example.

His teams press, they’re largely positive, he seems like a nurturing kind of manager, he’s not some negative, cynical type. He’s proven himself an accomplished coach over many years now. He’ll have his own ideas and will want to make changes, of course, but it wouldn’t be like getting Simeone in.

We can’t just go with the antithesis of Ole.

And I bet there isn’t a single manager in the league who doesn’t think they could do a better job than we’re currently doing.

Watching our defence unable to get past a half hearted press raises questions. Are they all just shit, or do they not now what they are doing? Are they not being drilled? I watch other teams in the same position and they seem to find options easily. You can see the movement. Our lot just stand still, look up and hope to find someone there to help them out.

The best bit yesterday was after several times when we couldn't get the ball out, Ole brings in his tactical Plan B. "Hit it long lads".

I sat there and watched Brentford absolutely run all over chelsea yesterday evening with a midfield of Canos, Onyeka, Norgaard, jenson and Henry.

No, i've never heard of them either. But as a unit they completely dominated a far superior team through organised pressure. They weren't flying into tackles and lumping the ball into the box, it was calculated and tactical and allowed Brentford to just keep Chelsea on the back foot constantly.

They reduced the current european champions to one shot on target the whole game, most of which was played in Chelsea's half with the goalkeeper getting man of the match. i don't even have to go into the difference in individual quality in terms of players.

That's a newly promoted team, with a bunch of largely average level players and a manager nobody had heard of 12 months ago. Now i'm fully aware that it could all go wrong for Brentford next month and that they could get relegated etc... but at least you can see something there. They are greater than the sum of their parts. That's what decent coaching does. It elevates players above their limitations through developing methods and tactics to get the best out of them.

Now United are quite clearly lesser than the sum of our parts and have been for some time. There's clearly a disconnect between what the manager wants them to do and what the players are producing on the pitch, now i don't imagine for one moment that Ole is telling them to stand about and watch teams just pass through them up the pitch with ease, but the man needs to find a method to make our team function as a team. At the moment we resemble a back 4 with 6 players in front of them pretty much doing what they feel like.

I get the overall impression that there's not a lot of fear of failure in our team. I don't get the feeling that they're going off the pitch after that performance yesterday worried about what the manger is going to say to them afterwards. I'm sure they're pissed off and annoyed but I don't think any of them fear repercussions.

I think they like playing for Ole in the same way that kids like it when their parents leave them for the weekend at their grandparents house, because they can get away with things that they wouldn't get away with usually and get spoiled.

That's what we have. A tactically inferior manager who's indulging players who's shortcomings are just completely overlooked because of the moments of brilliance they can bring and now we're reaping that.

Originally Posted by shenwen

Watching our defence unable to get past a half hearted press raises questions. Are they all just shit, or do they not now what they are doing? Are they not being drilled? I watch other teams in the same position and they seem to find options easily. You can see the movement. Our lot just stand still, look up and hope to find someone there to help them out.

The best bit yesterday was after several times when we couldn't get the ball out, Ole brings in his tactical Plan B. "Hit it long lads".

That’s coaching. Plain and simple.

If one or two players are off it, fine, but when all but one or two look uncertain, confused and lost, then it’s coaching.

A team reflects their manager. Especially after three years.

Ole rarely talks tactics. All about tackling, winning headers, playing ‘the United way’. Very basic stuff. He even seemed offended by the notion of having a philosophy when asked about it a while back.

Talking again yesterday about having quality players out there…..

And we look like those thoughts. Just throw good players out there, win a few tackles and show pashern and desoire.

We need more than that, Ole.

Shearer talked about us post-match and showed several clips of players not really pressing and not really dropping off. Right in between. Now, are we expected to believe that they are all lazy or that they don’t know wait they’re
Meant to be doing?

One of the examples was Bruno. He is anything but lazy. Fred, awb, Maguire, Greenwood, Sancho, The Scottish Player, rashford, Cavani, are all hard working ‘honest’ (hate that word) players.

It’s coaching. That lack of knowing whether to press is the players
Not knowing what to do. After 3 years.

You could sense Pogba alluding to it in his interview with his ‘something needs to change’ talk. I mean, he’s one to £#%&!ing talk, but the overall point isn’t wrong. And these big personalities not being onside won’t do Ole any favours.

I remember a few seasons ago he said “he needed a full pre season” to get the message across to the players

Originally Posted by Dr Stranger

Fair enough and agreed.

No manager comes and just works exactly with what they’ve got. I think there’s a happy medium to he had where we let someone do their thing, but that thing isn’t entirely removed from what the current manager is doing.

Take Rodgers as an example.

His teams press, they’re largely positive, he seems like a nurturing kind of manager, he’s not some negative, cynical type. He’s proven himself an accomplished coach over many years now. He’ll have his own ideas and will want to make changes, of course, but it wouldn’t be like getting Simeone in.

We can’t just go with the antithesis of Ole.

And I bet there isn’t a single manager in the league who doesn’t think they could do a better job than we’re currently doing.

There needs to be a top down revamp. They said one was being done, but it was half arsed. No problem with ex-players being involved with the running of the club, but Fletcher isn't the director football we need, and it would seem Ole isn't the man to build a squad capable of sustained success.

And by sustained success, I don't mean a 25 year dynasty. But having a manager successfully competing for 6, 7+ years like Pep, Klopp and Simeone is something that we should be looking to do. But do I trust the people making the decision to get the right person in to do the job, and then back them properly? Do I £#%&!.

And then even if we were going down the other route of having a director of football in charge of the squad and just cycling through managers, which isn't my preferred choice, we're going to need good football heads to do that for us. The sad thing is, it seems the people at the top in charge of making that decision don't even know where to start. (probably why we made the extremely imaginative decision to just give the job to Fletcher in the first place tbh).

It's embarrassing and we're absolutely %@#$&!sed from the top down. It's bad enough we get the feeling that the manager was learning on job, it feels like everybody running the club is learning on the job almost 10 years in.

Unless something drastically changes and it looks we have some real direction as a club, I think we're just going to go round in circles.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

I sat there and watched Brentford absolutely run all over chelsea yesterday evening with a midfield of Canos, Onyeka, Norgaard, jenson and Henry.

No, i've never heard of them either. But as a unit they completely dominated a far superior team through organised pressure. They weren't flying into tackles and lumping the ball into the box, it was calculated and tactical and allowed Brentford to just keep Chelsea on the back foot constantly.

They reduced the current european champions to one shot on target the whole game, most of which was played in Chelsea's half with the goalkeeper getting man of the match. i don't even have to go into the difference in individual quality in terms of players.

That's a newly promoted team, with a bunch of largely average level players and a manager nobody had heard of 12 months ago. Now i'm fully aware that it could all go wrong for Brentford next month and that they could get relegated etc... but at least you can see something there. They are greater than the sum of their parts. That's what decent coaching does. It elevates players above their limitations through developing methods and tactics to get the best out of them.

Now United are quite clearly lesser than the sum of our parts and have been for some time. There's clearly a disconnect between what the manager wants them to do and what the players are producing on the pitch, now i don't imagine for one moment that Ole is telling them to stand about and watch teams just pass through them up the pitch with ease, but the man needs to find a method to make our team function as a team. At the moment we resemble a back 4 with 6 players in front of them pretty much doing what they feel like.

I get the overall impression that there's not a lot of fear of failure in our team. I don't get the feeling that they're going off the pitch after that performance yesterday worried about what the manger is going to say to them afterwards. I'm sure they're pissed off and annoyed but I don't think any of them fear repercussions.

I think they like playing for Ole in the same way that kids like it when their parents leave them for the weekend at their grandparents house, because they can get away with things that they wouldn't get away with usually and get spoiled.

That's what we have. A tactically inferior manager who's indulging players who's shortcomings are just completely overlooked because of the moments of brilliance they can bring and now we're reaping that.

This is all bang on.

Especially about the disconnect between what he wants them to do and what they actually do.

There’s really no need to ask if Ole is sending them out to make mistakes. Of course he isn’t, but he is responsible for the way they play. If they go out confident in their role and how it fits in the teams idea, then they do things differently. Hesitation, doubt, a lack of confidence will make players do daft things, look half a yard slower and generally look a bit shit.

We don’t know exactly what he’s saying, but we do know what we are, which is shit. So he is either approaching it wrong, or he can’t get his message across. Either way, it’s a problem.

When a team looks well drilled, organised, confident and greater than the sum of their parts, we instantly praise the manager. And rightly so. If it’s the opposite, then you blame the manager.

Liverpool and City are the best two teams by a mile because they have the two best managers in the world who have been getting their message across for years. You know EXACTLY what you’re going to get from them and you’re surprised when you don’t.

Liverpool were always going to win comfortably at Watford by just doing what they do. They won 5-0 without breaking sweat. And it’s not because their squad is infinitely better than ours or anyone else’s.

It also isn’t complicated. They play quickly, directly, they press, they know their strengths and every single player knows their job.

It’s night and day from us.

If we’d have gone to Watford, I have no doubt we would have made hard work of it. Maybe win, maybe not, but it’d be close and we end up lamenting the fine margins and about how Watford upped their game.

Originally Posted by Patty_b

There needs to be a top down revamp. They said one was being done, but it was half arsed. No problem with ex-players being involved with the running of the club, but Fletcher isn't the director football we need, and it would seem Ole isn't the man to build a squad capable of sustained success.

And by sustained success, I don't mean a 25 year dynasty. But having a manager successfully competing for 6, 7+ years like Pep, Klopp and Simeone is something that we should be looking to do. But do I trust the people making the decision to get the right person in to do the job, and then back them properly? Do I £#%&!.

And then even if we were going down the other route of having a director of football in charge of the squad and just cycling through managers, which isn't my preferred choice, we're going to need good football heads to do that for us. The sad thing is, it seems the people at the top in charge of making that decision don't even know where to start. (probably why we made the extremely imaginative decision to just give the job to Fletcher in the first place tbh).

It's embarrassing and we're absolutely %@#$&!sed from the top down. It's bad enough we get the feeling that the manager was learning on job, it feels like everybody running the club is learning on the job almost 10 years in.

Unless something drastically changes and it looks we have some real direction as a club, I think we're just going to go round in circles.

Yep, don’t disagree at all. Ole needs to go, but I don’t have any faith in the owners to get the next step right.

They now seem to have performed a complete over-correction of quick fixes, to just supporting Ole no matter what.

Originally Posted by marlo

I remember a few seasons ago he said “he needed a full pre season” to get the message across to the players

I remember that shit coat you bought.

No clean sheet in 19 games.

That’s dreadful.

From one of the best defensive records In Europe not so long ago to that.

Originally Posted by AK14

No clean sheet in 19 games.

That’s dreadful.

From one of the best defensive records In Europe not so long ago to that.

Wolves away. More by accident than design though.

Originally Posted by elhombre

it's like ending a marriage where you're not really arguing or even disliking each other - it's just not working and you can't bring yourself to admit it.

Look, me and the missus have looked ourselves in the mirror, we've looked at each other in the mirror and we have to dust our socks off and pull ourselves up. At the end of the day that's marriage.

Originally Posted by Zorg

Look, me and the missus have looked ourselves in the mirror, we've looked at each other in the mirror and we have to dust our socks off and pull ourselves up. At the end of the day that's marriage.

PM me if you need to discuss this further, all the best.

Originally Posted by Zorg

Look, me and the missus have looked ourselves in the mirror, we've looked at each other in the mirror and we have to dust our socks off and pull ourselves up. At the end of the day that's marriage.

Because when you're at a marriage like this, with this history of this marriage, you know what's expected of you. And we'll bounce back next weekend when we go to her mum's for dinner.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

Because when you're at a marriage like this, with this history of this marriage, you know what's expected of you. And we'll bounce back next weekend when we go to her mum's for dinner.

Not convinced of the analogy between a sunday roast at the mother in laws and a match against the scousers unless the mother in law is Lucrezia Borgia.

https://youtu.be/Zu-wuK8GxfU

Originally Posted by marlo

I remember a few seasons ago he said “he needed a full pre season” to get the message across to the players

He's been talking a lot of nonsense from the day he arrived.

The worst might just be the nonsense about Rashford yesterday.

The way the players performed yesterday suggests he has lost the dressing room. Atalanta will be key. Anything less than a win and we are moving towards Europa and building huge pressure on that Liverpool game. Can't see us beating them right now. A huge defeat there could speed the process up. Surely Ferie and the big guys in the dressing room would intervene in the end.

Looks like brucie available from tomorrow

Originally Posted by saffers

He's been talking a lot of nonsense from the day he arrived.

The worst might just be the nonsense about Rashford yesterday.

The way the players performed yesterday suggests he has lost the dressing room. Atalanta will be key. Anything less than a win and we are moving towards Europa and building huge pressure on that Liverpool game. Can't see us beating them right now. A huge defeat there could speed the process up. Surely Ferie and the big guys in the dressing room would intervene in the end.

I think if we lose both games this week, it’ll turn very sour very quickly and he’ll be gone.

IF & that is IF he is sacked, it cannot happen until the end of the month.