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Unread 17-10-2021, 01:30 AM
Stickman
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunk
They weren’t allowed their drugs last season tbf.
Do people actually believe this?
 
Unread 17-10-2021, 03:29 AM
Denis Irwell
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stickman
Do people actually believe this?

Have you read the backstory on this stuff?

Eyebrow raising, to say the least.
 
Unread 17-10-2021, 03:45 AM
shenwen
 
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Quote:
“I’ve got many good players and every game is a different game. I am not going to put excuses up for the team I put out because it is full of top footballers and that was not good enough.”


Here's the problem. He thinks having a team full of top footballers is enough. It's not.

Guarantee every player on that pitch would look better if they were in a different team or under a different manager. Look at Fred for Brazil ffs. We have a team full of top players who don't seem to know what they are meant to be doing, or what their teammates are supposed to be doing.
 
Unread 17-10-2021, 06:33 AM
MUFC One Love
 
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The thing is some of these players won't allow the season to be over if we stick with Ole. They will get him sacked sooner.
 
Unread 17-10-2021, 07:39 AM
Long tongue phooey
 
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Go get ten hag from Ajax... We need a manager with a shaved head
 
Unread 17-10-2021, 07:47 AM
Stickman
 
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Classic Phooer's
 
Unread 17-10-2021, 08:01 AM
Gypsum Fantastic
 
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We definitely don't need a full squad rebuild. We need someone to decipher a style and formation then figure out which players that we have fit into that and where. Then replace the others. Currently Ole is putting out teams that might look food on paper but there too unbalanced and badly organised. They're now lacking confidence, if not in themselves but in the system (aka 'the project') or both.
 
Unread 17-10-2021, 08:05 AM
Dr Stranger
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gypsum Fantastic
We definitely don't need a full squad rebuild. We need someone to decipher a style and formation then figure out which players that we have fit into that and where. Then replace the others. Currently Ole is putting out teams that might look food on paper but there too unbalanced and badly organised. They're now lacking confidence, if not in themselves but in the system (aka 'the project') or both.
.
 
Unread 17-10-2021, 08:13 AM
Patty_b
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gypsum Fantastic
We definitely don't need a full squad rebuild. We need someone to decipher a style and formation then figure out which players that we have fit into that and where. Then replace the others. Currently Ole is putting out teams that might look food on paper but there too unbalanced and badly organised. They're now lacking confidence, if not in themselves but in the system (aka 'the project') or both.
Not a full rebuild, no. But a new midfield (finally) and a right back at least. It shouldn't be difficult, but like I said, we've practically got the same midfield options we had with Mourinho. It wasn't good enough then, and it definitely isn't good enough now.

And then there's the issue of who we put in charge of buying new players. Are we going to leave it to whatever manager we have, when there's a good chance he won't be at the club for 3 full seasons, or leave it to the club hierarchy?

I just want the club to have a direction in what we do going forward. Rather than just snapping the fingers when we hit a bad patch and then desperately trying to figure out what's best after the fact.
 
Unread 17-10-2021, 08:16 AM
AK14
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stickman
Conte isn’t for me either but it’s horses for courses re his signings at Inter. I’m sure if he could have bought the likes of Varane and Sancho for them he would have. Inter aren’t really shopping quite at the same end of the market as United, City, Chelsea and Liverpool.

Further to that though, if we’re going to dig him out for buying shit players, then shouldn’t there be credit due for delivering a league title with shit?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tatty
I don't get the argument that we shouldn't give Conte the job because he plays shit-on-a-stick football. He'd drill this squad in to a hard to beat team and then no doubt add at least one dcm which would totally change the way we play.

Ole can't even get the shit on to the stick.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky***
I think we need to get one thing into our heads and the quicker our club starts to get it, the better - "short term" is the norm. That's the norm for the vast majority of the clubs in european football. Managers don't stay at clubs for decades at a time any more.

We need to let go of this delusion that if we fill the club with enough of Ferguson's acolytes that we're going to recreate this dynasty with one man at the helm for 10+ years. Its. Not. Going. To. Happen.

Having one man at the helm for 26 years has absolutely skewed our view of the football landscape to think that changing coaches in 4-5 year periods is somehow not the done thing. Or at least not the done thing at Manchester United. Which is wrong.

We're chasing a ghost. We're harking back to a time that doesn't apply any more. There's a time for certain managers and i think that December 2018 was Ole's time for us, he was the personality to take us out of that rut and now he's taken the job and the team as far as he can. His time here should be coming to an end.

And this mental notion that "there's nobody out there"...well what does that mean? That there's nobody out there who could do better? Or there's nobody out there who is going to turn this team into title winners? Because, if you think that a 3 time back to back european cup winning manager like Zidane couldn't do any better then i think you'd be mistaken. I guarantee nobody here would have wanted someone like Tuchel because he got the boot at PSG.

The fact is there are managers of great pedigree out there, who have experience of managing the best clubs and the best players but apparently they're not going to cut it? I don't buy it.

No manager comes with them the guarantee of success, but what you can do is seriously improve your odds of success by getting in someone of substance who has at least some experience of guiding a team to trophies at the top end of the game. And just because someone like Mourinho didn't work out - that doesn't mean you go completely the other £#%&!ing way and start throwing all your weight behind managerial novices.

Manchester United is not the club where anyone - players, managers or boardroom - should be learning on the £#%&!ing job.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gypsum Fantastic
We definitely don't need a full squad rebuild. We need someone to decipher a style and formation then figure out which players that we have fit into that and where. Then replace the others. Currently Ole is putting out teams that might look food on paper but there too unbalanced and badly organised. They're now lacking confidence, if not in themselves but in the system (aka 'the project') or both.
All of this.
 
Unread 17-10-2021, 08:49 AM
75Red
 
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by AK14
All of this.
Yep.
 
Unread 17-10-2021, 08:55 AM
Denis Irwell
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 75Red
Yep.
All of this.
 
Unread 17-10-2021, 08:56 AM
AK14
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denis Irwell
All of this.
And this.
 
Unread 17-10-2021, 10:19 AM
atticusgrinch
 
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Poch only has a contract at PSG until summer 2023...

Wouldn't even cost that much.

Please don't flush another season down the shitter united.
 
Unread 17-10-2021, 11:16 AM
Dr Stranger
 
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I’m sure there were plenty of Chelsea fans who were backing Lampard and wanted to see him given time. There wasn’t much more out there this time last year than there is now.

What they did was hire someone with clear pedigree and he instantly elevated them to something akin to what their squad looks like.

There is now no doubt that they made the right decision and he is clearly a cut above Lampard.

We need to do the same. As sparky says, Ole was right at the time he was hired. He’s done a good job getting us to this point, but it’s becoming increasingly clear he simply is not good enough as a manager to take us any further. That doesn’t have to be a big deal or even a failure. It just is what it is.

The club don’t seem to see this.

I’m mostly concerned by the clubs attitude. They seem hell bent on backing Ole regardless of what they see in front of them. Why have his backtroom staff been given new contracts? Why leak that he is 100% safe? Why is he 100% safe? He shouldn’t be. Where is this level of faith actually coming from? He’s never had the credentials, so the defence for him has always been that you could defend the job he’s actually doing. As soon as that isn’t the case, he’s in trouble. And we’re at that point now. It’s getting harder and harder to defend the job he’s currently doing. Not what’s gone before, but where we are NOW.

We’re now operating on blind faith and loyalty to a player we like and I don’t think the club has the ambition to change it.

The only thing that will shift it will be the fans turning or the players turning. Or both.
 
Unread 17-10-2021, 11:23 AM
shenwen
 
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Not even close to full squad rebuild needed. We have a good squad. Even our midfield isn't a million miles away from top 4 standard. But we've been playing square pegs in round holes for two seasons now.

Needs to end.

This attitude of "who we going to get in instead?" is defeatist. We can't predict the future, obviously, but sometimes you have to take a risk or you get stuck in mediocrity, which is where we are now (relative to the players we have). Sticking with Ole is accepting failure and given the huge salary he is on, it's a ludicrous stance.
 
Unread 17-10-2021, 11:28 AM
Coracao
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shenwen
Not even close to full squad rebuild needed. We have a good squad. Even our midfield isn't a million miles away from top 4 standard. But we've been playing square pegs in round holes for two seasons now.

Needs to end.

This attitude of "who we going to get in instead?" is defeatist. We can't predict the future, obviously, but sometimes you have to take a risk or you get stuck in mediocrity, which is where we are now (relative to the players we have). Sticking with Ole is accepting failure and given the huge salary he is on, it's a ludicrous stance.
Especially when there's numerous in the Premier League who are better managers
 
Unread 17-10-2021, 11:31 AM
tatty
 
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The squad is only one top class defensive midfielder away from being title contenders.

IF we get a manager in who knows what he’s doing.

We are so close and yet a million miles away while Ole is still in charge.
 
Unread 17-10-2021, 11:33 AM
AK14
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shenwen
Not even close to full squad rebuild needed. We have a good squad. Even our midfield isn't a million miles away from top 4 standard. But we've been playing square pegs in round holes for two seasons now.

Needs to end.

This attitude of "who we going to get in instead?" is defeatist. We can't predict the future, obviously, but sometimes you have to take a risk or you get stuck in mediocrity, which is where we are now (relative to the players we have). Sticking with Ole is accepting failure and given the huge salary he is on, it's a ludicrous stance.
Yep.

We've been stung with the van Gaal and Mourinho appointments but a lot of that was down to the board relying on them to rebuild and shape the squad. That doesn’t need to happen this time and big positive under Ole is that the club seems to have got recruitment right and now with Fletcher and the other fella in place there’s the stability and structure in place.
 
Unread 17-10-2021, 11:34 AM
Dr Stranger
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shenwen
Not even close to full squad rebuild needed. We have a good squad. Even our midfield isn't a million miles away from top 4 standard. But we've been playing square pegs in round holes for two seasons now.

Needs to end.

This attitude of "who we going to get in instead?" is defeatist. We can't predict the future, obviously, but sometimes you have to take a risk or you get stuck in mediocrity, which is where we are now (relative to the players we have). Sticking with Ole is accepting failure and given the huge salary he is on, it's a ludicrous stance.
“Who is out there?”

“Someone who can do a better job”

We need to get out of this mentality that we need someone who is going to build a dynasty. I couldn’t care less if someone stuck around for 3 years, as long as they did well, in the right way.

More important, for me, is getting someone who won’t rip out what we have. Despite us needing a change, the squad is in much better shape than at any other time of someone taking over, so let’s not get someone who will rip it out. That’s a big part of what is setting us back: each manager spending a tonne on trying to correct the last persons mistakes. One of the best things Ole has done is build a better squad. Anyone coming in has a good set up on their hands and it should be one of the more comfortable transitions of recent years. We’re directionless, but we’re not a bad squad at all.

Above all else, we need an actual quality coach.
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