Interesting Times article...

Originally Posted by Sandman

Scholes and Giggs were better players than Beckham.

From 2000 onwards Id say Scholes was better than Beckham. Before that though Beckham was one of the first names on the teamsheet. Scholes was often dropped for Butt especially away from home pre 2000. People seem to forget this.

Agreed, these are interesting times.

Originally Posted by Stickman

From 2000 onwards Id say Scholes was better than Beckham. Before that though Beckham was one of the first names on the teamsheet. Scholes was often dropped for Butt especially away from home pre 2000. People seem to forget this.

That's not the point though, you said only Beckham from the class of 92 had got to that level. I think both Scholes and Giggs reached a higher level than Beckham did, I'm not having a dig at Beckham either because he was a great player for us.

I even remember Alan Hansen saying when asked if Beckham was in the top three midfielders in the world during the period when the hype around Beckham was at it's highest, and his reply was that he wasn't even in the top three midfielders at United.

To say Scholes especially never got to that level is baffling really.

Originally Posted by Sandman

That's not the point though, you said only Beckham from the class of 92 had got to that level. I think both Scholes and Giggs reached a higher level than Beckham did, I'm not having a dig at Beckham either because he was a great player for us.

I even remember Alan Hansen saying when asked if Beckham was in the top three midfielders in the world during the period when the hype around Beckham was at it's highest, and his reply was that he wasn't even in the top three midfielders at United.

To say Scholes especially never got to that level is baffling really.

I did NOT write that article.

Originally Posted by Stickman

I did NOT write that article.

Sorry, my mistake

Originally Posted by Spiffy

How many of the current side who have matched any previous achievement get into the 94 or 99 side? None of the midfielders for starters. Rooney, Rio, Vidic. Evra on the bench. That's about it isn't it? How many match winners do we have? Not many but as I said, on paper they are every bit as good as any previous United under SAF. That's all he was saying I think, it wasn't a dig at United.

evra would be pushing irwin. fully fit, rio and vidic are probably the best centre back pairing we've had. and for the last three years fletcher has put in performances that would easily win him a place on the bench. unless you want the cole-yorke partnership (which was fantastic, but not for long) then eric and rooney would be the front two for me.

and we've got a lot of match winners. you can see it in how many matches we win.

Originally Posted by borsuk

evra would be pushing irwin. fully fit, rio and vidic are probably the best centre back pairing we've had. and for the last three years fletcher has put in performances that would easily win him a place on the bench. unless you want the cole-yorke partnership (which was fantastic, but not for long) then eric and rooney would be the front two for me.

and we've got a lot of match winners. you can see it in how many matches we win.

Evra would 100% be ahead imo. Hes everything the modern day full back dreams of being, his consistency is incredible too - not that Irwins wasnt, but this guy is legit the best left back in the world for my money.

Id have loved to have seen Cantona and Ruud.

Oliver Holt is the most massive of @#%&!s in the whole world.

I cant read anything of his without blood curdling rage building up inside me. I actuall want to kill him in the face.

BTW, I love Evra but he's not in Irwin's league YET.

Irwin did it for years plus was two footed and scored goals. Evra is on his way to becoming a legend and is one of our most important players in this squad but still has a way to go yet.

the only thing evra lets himself down is on the final ball or when inside the penalty box. For a player with such positional sense and technical ability on the ball, I can't imagine why he plays like a rabbit under headlights once he is near the penalty box. He either wildly shoots or just drags it horribly wide.

Originally Posted by PaulParkersPubes

Oliver Holt is the most massive of @#%&!s in the whole world.

I cant read anything of his without blood curdling rage building up inside me. I actuall want to kill him in the face.

I certainly wouldn't disagree with that assessment - still haven't forgotten or forgiven his informing the world that we were "outplayed" by "magnificent" Chelsea in Moscow Just one small thing however - it isn't him who wrote this particular piece though

The current success of united is rooted in rooney seeing off RvN, ronaldo's rise to the very top of the world game, and the signing of michael carrick.

Arguably, the platform for all this to take effect is found in the summer of 2005.

VDS was possibly Ferguson's best signing of the last decade.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

The current success of united is rooted in rooney seeing off RvN, ronaldo's rise to the very top of the world game, and the signing of michael carrick.

Arguably, the platform for all this to take effect is found in the summer of 2005.

VDS was possibly Ferguson's best signing of the last decade.

the success of united is rooted in ferguson being the manager and creating the best organised club in the world, simple as that. the current success is no different from the rest of the success - it's just a natural continuation of what was before.

agree on vds. his level of performance since he joined us is comparable to schmeichel's imo.

Originally Posted by borsuk

the success of united is rooted in ferguson being the manager and creating the best organised club in the world, simple as that. the current success is no different from the rest of the success - it's just a natural continuation of what was before.

agree on vds. his level of performance since he joined us is comparable to schmeichel's imo.

If that's the case, why did Chelsea win 2 league titles on the bounce and play us off the pitch? We still had Fergie, we still had the organisation. The answer is that SAF took his eye off the ball, we bought shite who were never good enough. SAF turned it around a few years ago and we've never looked back. To deny there was a blip would be wrong. We were going backwards for a while. Getting from that to EC Champions and a hattrick of titles is even more impressive than keeping an exceptional team ticking along. I don't mean this to be a dig as SAF.

Originally Posted by Spiffy

If that's the case, why did Chelsea win 2 league titles on the bounce and play us off the pitch? We still had Fergie, we still had the organisation. The answer is that SAF took his eye off the ball, we bought shite who were never good enough. SAF turned it around a few years ago and we've never looked back. To deny there was a blip would be wrong. We were going backwards for a while. Getting from that to EC Champions and a hattrick of titles is even more impressive than keeping an exceptional team ticking along. I don't mean this to be a dig as SAF.

no club wins every year. how many times have united been out of the top three, even in the years we buying (and presumably playing) shite?

Originally Posted by borsuk

no club wins every year. how many times have united been out of the top three, even in the years we buying (and presumably playing) shite?

Open your eyes ffs Borsuk. We were playing Bellion, Milner, Forlan, Alan Smith, Kleberson, Djemba and the list goes on. So you're saying we were just as good say 2003-2006 as we were 93-96 and 98-2000?

You used to talk sense when it came to football but recently you've been slipping. It was only last week you suggested Owen Coyle as an alternative to Mourinho as SAF's successor.

Originally Posted by Spiffy

Open your eyes ffs Borsuk. We were playing Bellion, Milner, Forlan, Alan Smith, Kleberson, Djemba and the list goes on. So you're saying we were just as good say 2003-2006 as we were 93-96 and 98-2000?

i know the names. we were also playing scholes, giggs, ruud, ronaldo, keane, ferdinand etc. the standard of the squad fluctuates and i think kenyon going to chelsea set us back somewhat. but i don't see any change in fergie's performance and i don't think there was a tremendous change. just the usual cycle and transition.

You used to talk sense when it came to football but recently you've been slipping. It was only last week you suggested Owen Coyle as an alternative to Mourinho as SAF's successor.

no, we were talking about possible managers to replace ferguson and i said i hope he'll carry on for five more years, by which time managers who are not currently considered might have emerged - coyle, who i think is doing very well, was an example of a manager who might, in five years, be at a level where he could be considered. where was moyes five years ago? or blanc?

with all the shit you get about racism etc i'd have thought you of all people would at least quote accurately if you want to criticise.

Originally Posted by borsuk

i know the names. we were also playing scholes, giggs, ruud, ronaldo, keane, ferdinand etc. the standard of the squad fluctuates and i think kenyon going to chelsea set us back somewhat. but i don't see any change in fergie's performance and i don't think there was a tremendous change. just the usual cycle and transition.

no, we were talking about possible managers to replace ferguson and i said i hope he'll carry on for five more years, by which time managers who are not currently considered might have emerged - coyle, who i think is doing very well, was an example of a manager who might, in five years, be at a level where he could be considered. where was moyes five years ago? or blanc?

with all the shit you get about racism etc i'd have thought you of all people would at least quote accurately if you want to criticise.

I disagree with you over the strength of the squad but I'll agree to disagree. Re the Coyle thing, I just remembered you made the comment. I stand corrected.

Originally Posted by Spiffy

I disagree with you over the strength of the squad but I'll agree to disagree. Re the Coyle thing, I just remembered you made the comment. I stand corrected.

racist