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Unread 12-02-2010, 01:16 PM
borsuk
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorg
I refer you to my post above, which you appear to have ignored.

In the absence of a match at OT, those accusing FC of not getting involved would do well to go to Bury and see for themselves.
i don't have a problem with that, as you know zorg, but many will, unfortunately.


fwiw the best of all worlds would be for as many mom-fc as are able to get to gigg lane on saturday. and then as many fc as possible to get to the next home game to bolster the protests, the singing etc. 'not one penny' is all well and good but if you know somebody else will fill the space you leave behind, without bringing the knowledge and passion and willingness to fight, then it strikes me as self-indulgence, no offence.

it would be idiotic to suggest that the g&g protests at ot are not having an effect. refusing to join them seems like a very strange way to behave. imo.
 
Unread 12-02-2010, 01:26 PM
ReligiousRed
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by borsuk

not sure what your point is, zorg.

never fails to amuse me in serious threads when the username is used



I appreciate that you dont really like the way the company is being run Surfers do Charlie, but its like HolyMackrelDoodleBonkon says, in this current economic climate you cant expect the likes of beersexchipsgravy to change his policy.

Did i think into that too much !?!
 
Unread 12-02-2010, 01:31 PM
Zorg
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by borsuk
i don't have a problem with that, as you know zorg, but many will, unfortunately.


fwiw the best of all worlds would be for as many mom-fc as are able to get to gigg lane on saturday. and then as many fc as possible to get to the next home game to bolster the protests, the singing etc. 'not one penny' is all well and good but if you know somebody else will fill the space you leave behind, without bringing the knowledge and passion and willingness to fight, then it strikes me as self-indulgence, no offence.

it would be idiotic to suggest that the g&g protests at ot are not having an effect. refusing to join them seems like a very strange way to behave. imo.
I agree, it would be, but that for me is countered by giving them money. As long as the money's coming in, the Glazers won't give a shite about what colour scarves people wear. The reason they're scared, in my eyes, is because they're worried about where it may lead - which is why I think it's a great idea, because it could lead somewhere.

As for people filling the space you leave behind, if this is the case, why are more tickets on open sale this season than there have been for years?

As I've said above, I think a mass one-match boycott is a possibility, but people don't seem keen unfortunately. If it were done, I know for a fact (because it's been discussed) that a ton of FC fans would join it, outside OT.
 
Unread 12-02-2010, 01:42 PM
denis lawless
 
Exclamation

lets start a campaign here and now...

boycott the Fulham game.....its not a high profile opponent and its on Sky

[SIZE="7"]BOYCOTT THE FULHAM GAME
 
Unread 12-02-2010, 01:59 PM
borsuk
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorg
As for people filling the space you leave behind, if this is the case, why are more tickets on open sale this season than there have been for years?
price hikes, i'm afraid, not a boycott. the glazer business model is nothing new in this regard - you accept losing loyal clients and accept selling 10% less because you're able to charge 90% more.
 
Unread 12-02-2010, 02:00 PM
Jack Duckworth
 
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by denis lawless
lets start a campaign here and now...

boycott the Fulham game.....its not a high profile opponent and its on Sky

[SIZE="7"]BOYCOTT THE FULHAM GAME
+1

and i reckon ginners and fuzzers will be with us, too.
 
Unread 12-02-2010, 02:01 PM
Alan
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by borsuk
imo public pressure and changes at the administrative level are the only way to force united onto a stable footing, not boycotts. partly because a boycott is not going to happen for the reasons that have been said (day trippers and jcls) and partly because forcing the club into a genuine debt crisis because you're angry about the potential debt crisis is just stupid.

imo the way back to a sound footing for united is for the club to be forced to abandon its current debt level by the football authorities. if all clubs were forced to bring debt down, or were forced to operate a transfer budget related to profits post-debt payments, then the glazers' model would be untenable and they would have no alternative but to sell a stake to an outside investor, to float the club again, or to sell the whole club, even at a loss. it might well mean some fairly unpalatable steps along the way - selling and leasing back ot, selling out to some unsavoury owner a la chelsea or city - and a few years of limping along and struggling to compete but it's preferable to the club going to way of leeds or portsmouth.

personally i find some of the lip-smaking delectation at the thought of bankrupting the club via a boycott mind-boggling. you're not going to force the glazers out by making united even more of a financial basket-case. you might do it through rules which affect all clubs.

i agree. a walkout won't happen but small steps are possible. songs along the lines of 'turn your back on the glazers' with the crowd turning their backs for moments before/during/after the games would be really effective. fan-organised 'a minute's silence for the death of mufc' at the start of a game could be tried and so on. all very visual, very effective at keeping public attention and pressure on.


United aren't going to be forced into bankruptcy. I'd have thought someone of your apparent intelligence would be aware of that.

The idea of boycotting is to £#%&! the glazer 'business plan' hard in the arse, forcing them to sell.

As things stand, they couldn't give a £#%&! about people in scarves, because those crazy rebels are paying off the PIKs that the glazers currently owe.

The bond issue has put the 500m of bank loans on the back burner, so they can pay off their PIKs and rape millions from the club through the bond structure.

Your lily livered lefty attitude is one that has been adopted by the majority for 5 years and where has it got us?

Absolutely nowhere.

The green and gold was supposed to be a starting point of something bigger, but the bulk of @#%&!s inside the ground have no intention of taking it any further at all.
 
Unread 12-02-2010, 02:02 PM
denis lawless
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Duckworth
+1

and i reckon ginners and fuzzers will be with us, too.
result

thats one car full already and weve not been going half an hour

come on....lets be havin ya
 
Unread 12-02-2010, 02:16 PM
borsuk
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan


United aren't going to be forced into bankruptcy. I'd have thought someone of your apparent intelligence would be aware of that.

The idea of boycotting is to £#%&! the glazer 'business plan' hard in the arse, forcing them to sell.

As things stand, they couldn't give a £#%&! about people in scarves, because those crazy rebels are paying off the PIKs that the glazers currently owe.

The bond issue has put the 500m of bank loans on the back burner, so they can pay off their PIKs and rape millions from the club through the bond structure.

Your lily livered lefty attitude is one that has been adopted by the majority for 5 years and where has it got us?

Absolutely nowhere.

The green and gold was supposed to be a starting point of something bigger, but the bulk of @#%&!s inside the ground have no intention of taking it any further at all.
"lefty"

what the £#%&! has left or right got to do with how best to get rid of the glazers you pillock?


as to the rest, it's all just spleen. there has been £#%&! all visible protest for 5 years and so it got nowhere. there has been a visible protest for a month and a half and it's had more effect than 5 years of fc. i'm not anti-fc, as i've said before, but if you think the creation of fc even rippled the glazers' collective consciousness then you're barking mad.

btw, the g&g protests have had a big effect. they've given journos a hook to hang a story on, which creates pressure, which can help to bring about the kind of change i mentioned, from the fa, from uefa. a journo needs a reason to write a story. they might be aware of the debt issue but unless there's an opening they'll struggle to get it into the paper. the same goes for mps and for serious people at the fa and uefa (there are some). it's no coincidence that since the g&g started there has been a burgeoning debate about debt levels in football generally and what can be done about it.
 
Unread 12-02-2010, 02:26 PM
elephantstone
 
Default

The Glazers could be gone in 3-4 weeks YHIHF

stays on here
 
Unread 12-02-2010, 06:20 PM
Zorg
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by borsuk
price hikes, i'm afraid, not a boycott. the glazer business model is nothing new in this regard - you accept losing loyal clients and accept selling 10% less because you're able to charge 90% more.
Whatever the reasons are, the fact is there simply *isn't* always someone to fill your seat, and it's a convenient excuse for not boycotting at least one match. Unless people are prepared to do this - and good on you denis, by the way - they might as well put their scarves away.

Quote:
Originally Posted by borsuk

as to the rest, it's all just spleen. there has been £#%&! all visible protest for 5 years and so it got nowhere. there has been a visible protest for a month and a half and it's had more effect than 5 years of fc. i'm not anti-fc, as i've said before, but if you think the creation of fc even rippled the glazers' collective consciousness then you're barking mad.

btw, the g&g protests have had a big effect. they've given journos a hook to hang a story on, which creates pressure, which can help to bring about the kind of change i mentioned, from the fa, from uefa. a journo needs a reason to write a story. they might be aware of the debt issue but unless there's an opening they'll struggle to get it into the paper. the same goes for mps and for serious people at the fa and uefa (there are some). it's no coincidence that since the g&g started there has been a burgeoning debate about debt levels in football generally and what can be done about it.
There was a similar burgeoning debate when FC was formed and in the first few seasons - quite a lot was being written about it. Same with AFC Wimbledon. Let's not pretend the G&G is the first thing to provoke that debate - it's been going on in some quarters for five years, and some of us have been watching baffled recently as people seem to think this is a new thing. I don't know if living abroad you've missed all this, but to even insinuate that this recent thing has had more effect than FC is a joke. FC's creation raised the awareness of problems in football to a new level. The G&G protest could do the same - and I sincerely hope it does - but it's not there yet.

At the time, FC provided many an 'opening' for journos to write about football's problems, and there were countless articles then. The problem at the time was the more didn't come on board - firstly because non-league football didn't entice them (and fair enough on that score, each to their own etc.) and secondly, because United won trophies again. I support these protests, but I don't agree they're any more effective than anything that's gone before. Unless they lead somewhere, they'll mean nothing.

And at the end of it all, what's the final goal in all this? I suppose it depends on your point of view but for me, it is affordable football run by supporters, forging strong links with the community - which is exactly what clubs like AFC Wimbledon and FC United have set out to provide for years. It's short-sighted to say that FC United haven't rippled the Glazers' consciousness. Clubs like FC are a long-term plan, and in any case, the club's community work is fantastic. This is why the council are favourable to the club's plans - they've been hugely impressed with the club's approach to the community, something which most clubs binned off years ago to chase commercialism. It's a lot more than a few hundred pissed up #@&%!heads singing songs, which is of course where the 'FC are so smug' crew turn up.

Back to the 'visible protest' and Badge's original point, I still don't see what's wrong with inviting reds to gather - even if it is in Bury - when United aren't playing. If you think FC has achieved £#%&! all, well maybe this is a chance to prove otherwise. Those who say 'I thought FC was supposed to be a protest club', well, United aren't playing tomorrow, so go to Gigg Lane, wave your G&G scarf and it will be a protest club.
 
Unread 12-02-2010, 06:31 PM
armchair
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by borsuk
btw, the g&g protests have had a big effect. they've given journos a hook to hang a story on, which creates pressure, which can help to bring about the kind of change i mentioned, from the fa, from uefa. a journo needs a reason to write a story. they might be aware of the debt issue but unless there's an opening they'll struggle to get it into the paper. the same goes for mps and for serious people at the fa and uefa (there are some). it's no coincidence that since the g&g started there has been a burgeoning debate about debt levels in football generally and what can be done about it.
Yep doesn't matter a £#%&! if someone buys a pie at the ground or not. It's not that important at all.
 
Unread 12-02-2010, 06:43 PM
Whip Hubley
 
Default

so to summarise this thread, :
  • boycott is the only way to get rid of the glazers
  • a boycott isn't realistic and won't work anyway
  • don't buy pies inside the ground
  • buy a pie if you like, doesn't make any difference
  • green and gold campaign hasn't done anything
  • green and gold campaign has achieved much and is well on course




glad to clear that up
 
Unread 12-02-2010, 06:44 PM
The Mull
 
Default

I've done my bit at work. Along wtih the green and gold tie, part two of my plan was completed today:
all my lever arch files are now green with gold labels

That'll learn ya Glazer and Gill
 
Unread 12-02-2010, 06:52 PM
Grimson
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReligiousRed
never fails to amuse me in serious threads when the username is used



I appreciate that you dont really like the way the company is being run Surfers do Charlie, but its like HolyMackrelDoodleBonkon says, in this current economic climate you cant expect the likes of beersexchipsgravy to change his policy.

Did i think into that too much !?!
 
Unread 12-02-2010, 06:53 PM
Ethers
 
Default

Can someone post that asylum seekers flag please. Ta.
 
Unread 12-02-2010, 07:00 PM
Alan
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by borsuk
"lefty"

what the £#%&! has left or right got to do with how best to get rid of the glazers you pillock?


as to the rest, it's all just spleen. there has been £#%&! all visible protest for 5 years and so it got nowhere. there has been a visible protest for a month and a half and it's had more effect than 5 years of fc. i'm not anti-fc, as i've said before, but if you think the creation of fc even rippled the glazers' collective consciousness then you're barking mad.

btw, the g&g protests have had a big effect. they've given journos a hook to hang a story on, which creates pressure, which can help to bring about the kind of change i mentioned, from the fa, from uefa. a journo needs a reason to write a story. they might be aware of the debt issue but unless there's an opening they'll struggle to get it into the paper. the same goes for mps and for serious people at the fa and uefa (there are some). it's no coincidence that since the g&g started there has been a burgeoning debate about debt levels in football generally and what can be done about it.

FC is neither here nor there.

Lefty as in soft arsed liberal shite. Ooh let's not doing anything drastic now piss weak mentality.

What do you think G+G has achieved in terms of actually getting them out then? All it has done is raised awareness - that's it. It's better than nothing, but it's the first step and for the vast majority, the last step too.

It's all very well mentioning MPs and debt levels in football, and if somehow (I doubt it) laws can be passed to stop @#%&!s coming in and raping clubs, then £#%&!ing great, but it's not as if the government are going to say 'excuse me mr.glazer, we don't like your great big £#%&!off debt mountain that has been heaped on United - would you please undo it all and go away'.
They're not going to help United now - only the fans have the power to do that and force the @#%&!s to sell to someone better.
 
Unread 12-02-2010, 07:01 PM
Skag Trendy
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Blazini
Can someone post that asylum seekers flag please. Ta.

Pure was the man for the fc pics, the bring a jacket day pics.
 
Unread 12-02-2010, 07:09 PM
Ethers
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skag Trendy
Pure was the man for the fc pics, the bring a jacket day pics.


 
Unread 12-02-2010, 07:14 PM
Skag Trendy
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Blazini



Briliant pic, look at zorg on the right ffs

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