Van Gaal has to be sacked TONIGHT

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Well, unfortunately due to an astonishing club decision, when LvG took over Rooney had a five-year contract worth £80m or so. That obliges you to build around him, at least probably until you've got your feet under the table with a trophy or two.

But certainly going into this season reliant on Rooney was a massive mistake. From what I read at the time Van Gaal spent most of last summer telling the club he wanted a world class striker or none at all. Perhaps a game of bluff that didn't go his way.

It continues to be a tough rebuild. There are still issues to be resolved, and now the club needs to move on from the Rooney era, while Carrick needs replacing too. We're basically building almost an entire new squad in two years.



I don't see why it's odd. We can disagree, but even cutting through all the debate, does a bad season always have to end with sacking the manager? In his first year we did what we all felt was needed and got back into the top four, despite a flawed squad.

This season was even going alright for the first few months. I totally understand everyone who wants him gone, but sometimes sacking the manager isn't the easy solution everyone likes to believe.

everyone probably knows my long-standing thoughts on rooney, but basically we're about at where we were headed 6 years ago when he peaked and building round him - for all that he's still a brilliant player when it's running for him - was never likely to take us anywhere but backwards and certainly isn't ever going to take us forwards now.

it staggers me that van gaal could even consider using him as his lone striker tbh, when the way he plays that system demands that the centre forward be technically brilliant under intense pressure, tactically and positionally disciplined in the extreme, be able to come short, threaten in behind and skin his man as well

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

everyone probably knows my long-standing thoughts on rooney, but basically we're about at where we were headed 6 years ago when he peaked and building round him - for all that he's still a brilliant player when it's running for him - was never likely to take us anywhere but backwards and certainly isn't ever going to take us forwards now.

it staggers me that van gaal could even consider using him as his lone striker tbh, when the way he plays that system demands that the centre forward be technically brilliant under intense pressure, tactically and positionally disciplined in the extreme, be able to come short, threaten in behind and skin his man as well

Yeah, Van Gaal knows of course. Few quotes from him earlier this season saying that everyone spent last year telling him Rooney was best up front, almost goading them that he was right not to be playing him there. Now of course everyone's saying Rooney is best as a no10. Basically he has to keep moving him around because other players come in and do his job better than him.

Be interesting to see what happens over the summer, but we can't have another three years of this shit.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Yeah, Van Gaal knows of course. Few quotes from him earlier this season saying that everyone spent last year telling him Rooney was best up front, almost goading them that he was right not to be playing him there. Now of course everyone's saying Rooney is best as a no10. Basically he has to keep moving him around because other players come in and do his job better than him.

Be interesting to see what happens over the summer, but we can't have another three years of this shit.

if we get the players we need down the spine then i'm struggling to see rooney's main position in the side. especially if the new striker can play across the line.

i guess he'd be at the point of a midfield diamond, but if that's the plan it handicaps us in the market - no point bringing a top class playmaker in if rooney will operate in the same area of the field effectively as a glorified continuity player like he does now.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Well, unfortunately due to an astonishing club decision, when LvG took over Rooney had a five-year contract worth £80m or so. That obliges you to build around him, at least probably until you've got your feet under the table with a trophy or two.

But certainly going into this season reliant on Rooney was a massive mistake. From what I read at the time Van Gaal spent most of last summer telling the club he wanted a world class striker or none at all. Perhaps a game of bluff that didn't go his way.

It continues to be a tough rebuild. There are still issues to be resolved, and now the club needs to move on from the Rooney era, while Carrick needs replacing too. We're basically building almost an entire new squad in two years.



I don't see why it's odd. We can disagree, but even cutting through all the debate, does a bad season always have to end with sacking the manager? In his first year we did what we all felt was needed and got back into the top four, despite a flawed squad.

This season was even going alright for the first few months. I totally understand everyone who wants him gone, but sometimes sacking the manager isn't the easy solution everyone likes to believe.

He did JUST enough in his first season, yes. The bare minimum. More millions spent to make us worse. The fact he's only on a three year deal is important too. It's not even like he's got years to progress

And yes, one bad season should mean a sacking if you fail to meet the most basic of objectives. Any team not expecting to fight relegation who went down would sake their boss. 4th was absolute minimum. We bombed out of Europe, the league cup and we're boring. Record low number of goals. Fan discontent......I find it odd that thinking anyone would find you don't find it odd that I find it odd

Originally Posted by Billy Redface

He did JUST enough in his first season, yes. The bare minimum. More millions spent to make us worse. The fact he's only on a three year deal is important too. It's not even like he's got years to progress

And yes, one bad season should mean a sacking if you fail to meet the most basic of objectives. Any team not expecting to fight relegation who went down would sake their boss. 4th was absolute minimum. We bombed out of Europe, the league cup and we're boring. Record low number of goals. Fan discontent......I find it odd that thinking anyone would find you don't find it odd that I find it odd

i get the distinct impression that s/side doesn't agree with you, so i don't know why you keep typing the same thing over and over and over and over again in reply

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

I don't see why it's odd. We can disagree, but even cutting through all the debate, does a bad season always have to end with sacking the manager? In his first year we did what we all felt was needed and got back into the top four, despite a flawed squad.

This season was even going alright for the first few months. I totally understand everyone who wants him gone, but sometimes sacking the manager isn't the easy solution everyone likes to believe.

I don't think it'll be easy at all, and I'm dreading what happens next. But hand on heart he just doesn't deserve it. Sorry Louis. You've effectively lost your job on goal difference, but there it is, your team just doesn't score enough goals.

He took us on when nobody else would touch us, loads of shit that went wrong on him wasn't really his fault - he couldn't possibly have expected the players he took on would be so £#%&!ing thick, he's clearly never seen anything like us in 25 years of management, he found our recruiting a massive letdown, the injury run we had this season would have taxed Rinus Michels. I'm grateful but please, we can't go on with this godawful football. Win the Cup and retire with the last shreds of your dignity

Originally Posted by andyroo

he couldn't possibly have expected the players he took on would be so £#%&!ing thick, he's clearly never seen anything like us in 25 years of management,

Yeah, this is where I have a lot of sympathy for him. A group of players without a modicum of intelligence, this bunch of players are too stupid and the 'philosophy' was never going to work out with them. What was his quote about only needing brains and a ball to play football?
I'm gutted it didn't work out because I thought he would be a good fit for us and I liked that he's a bit barmy.

Originally Posted by andyroo

£#%&!ing hell Ramoners. We're all pissed off but

Van Gaal's Barcelona didn't get out the Group as I recall.

Nothing embarrassing about what I said anyway because the point wasn't about those games per se, it was about the expectations & mindset of the fans.

Stats about possession, clean sheets & 'heat zones' are all being trotted out to justify the crap we've been watching.
Never used to give that %@#$&!s a second thought back then & I don't now.

Originally Posted by MJ Ramone

Van Gaal's Barcelona didn't get out the Group as I recall.

Nothing embarrassing about what I said anyway because the point wasn't about those games per se, it was about the expectations & mindset of the fans.

Stats about possession, clean sheets & 'heat zones' are all being trotted out to justify the crap we've been watching.
Never used to give that balls a second thought back then & I don't now.

so you quoted two matches as examples of thrilling football, and then use those same matches to sneer at barcelona for not getting out of the group playing that kind of football

the resin they got knocked out was a last gasp bayern goal in camp nou in game 4 btw. we finished them off but still conceded 3 soft as £#%&! goals in that game.

ferguson if you remember resolved to change the way we play after failing to back up the 99 treble. he did it by signing rvn, the best striker i've ever seen at united, and playing a lone striker. van gaal is not the first top manager to try and instill a more sophisticated style at united. with fergie it took about 5 seasons and only after rvn was then £#%&!ed off did it lead to us becoming absolute masters at league football and CL group games. the trade off was that it slowly but surely took our edge away in major one-off games. once we lost him we quickly lost that consistency as well, and what was left wasn't much more than a shell of a team and that's what this manager is trying to sort out. it's not purely a quality thing and it's not purely a tactics thing.

Originally Posted by Denis Irwell

On another note, how the £#%&! did the board, (incl Ferie) sanction that £#%&!ing ridiculous Rooney contract?

His commercial importance.

Originally Posted by andyroo

I don't think it'll be easy at all, and I'm dreading what happens next. But hand on heart he just doesn't deserve it. Sorry Louis. You've effectively lost your job on goal difference, but there it is, your team just doesn't score enough goals.

He took us on when nobody else would touch us, loads of shit that went wrong on him wasn't really his fault - he couldn't possibly have expected the players he took on would be so £#%&!ing thick, he's clearly never seen anything like us in 25 years of management, he found our recruiting a massive letdown, the injury run we had this season would have taxed Rinus Michels. I'm grateful but please, we can't go on with this godawful football. Win the Cup and retire with the last shreds of your dignity

No reason why the godawful football can't improve. Mentioned it on here the other day, but Fergie nearly pulled a Brendan Rodgers in 1993. Took us to a whisker of that long-awaited title, we blew it and we were horrible for the first half of the following season. Mid-table I believe, and couldn't score goals. Had recorded 6 goals across 12 games in November or whatever. Then Cantona arrives and lifts it..

For me, part of this is the increasing manic-depressive take on football in England. It's always been the way in many other countries, but seems to have become more common here now. Mass and extreme overreaction. We saw it during the Autumn.

As much as people mock him, LvG is right about how the fans were turned partly by the media. When he leaves, I hope we go from strength to strength. But I'll probably always feel we gave up on something special because we lacked patience. Hard to ask that of people paying money, I know, but I fear there is a self-fulfilling prophecy element to the way this season has panned out, imo.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

No reason why the godawful football can't improve. Mentioned it on here the other day, but Fergie nearly pulled a Brendan Rodgers in 1993. Took us to a whisker of that long-awaited title, we blew it and we were horrible for the first half of the following season. Mid-table I believe, and couldn't score goals. Had recorded 6 goals across 12 games in November or whatever. Then Cantona arrives and lifts it..

For me, part of this is the increasing manic-depressive take on football in England. It's always been the way in many other countries, but seems to have become more common here now. Mass and extreme overreaction. We saw it during the Autumn.

As much as people mock him, LvG is right about how the fans were turned partly by the media. When he leaves, I hope we go from strength to strength. But I'll probably always feel we gave up on something special because we lacked patience. Hard to ask that of people paying money, I know, but I fear there is a self-fulfilling prophecy element to the way this season has panned out, imo.

Liverpool's near-win was 2014. Rodgers was given a full season and a quarter of this one to get things back on track before being sacked. Fergie in 92/93 was just a couple of months and a bad start wasn't judged as harshly (or as damaging) in the 90s as they are now. So he didn't nearly do a Rodgers at all...

Cba with the rest. You're deliberately acting up now I think

Originally Posted by Venceremos

Liverpool's near-win was 2014. Rodgers was given a full season and a quarter of this one to get things back on track before being sacked. Fergie in 92/93 was just a couple of months and a bad start wasn't judged as harshly (or as damaging) in the 90s as they are now. So he didn't nearly do a Rodgers at all...

Came within an inch of delivering a long-awaited title, £#%&!ed it and then looked like falling away the next season due to lack of firepower. United were 10th in November when Cantona arrived. These days we'd have to have waited until January. Definitely a vital moment in Fergie's career and pretty much everyone at the club admits Cantona changed everything.

Originally Posted by Venceremos

Cba with the rest. You're deliberately acting up now I think

You already did respond to it tbh.

a bad start wasn't judged as harshly (or as damaging) in the 90s as they are now

Basically what I'm saying. There's much more overreaction now, largely pushed by over exposure to the media.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Came within an inch of delivering a long-awaited title, £#%&!ed it and then looked like falling away the next season due to lack of firepower. United were 10th in November when Cantona arrived. These days we'd have to have waited until January. Definitely a vital moment in Fergie's career and pretty much everyone at the club admits Cantona changed everything.

We have firepower. We don't have any ammo.

Originally Posted by thrills_pills_bellyaches

If you don't think he will win the league next season then you must agree its time for him to go.

Yes but by the same rule, if the clog don't fit - you must acquit.

Regarding our defensive success this season: Van Gaal says that the whole team defends, and he's put a lot more emphasis on that ever since he realised how porous we were early doors last season. At the current rate we'll be back to where we started under Van Gaal - (as suggested by our 4-0 and 3-5 scorelines Sept 2014) - some time around 2023.

You can argue it's the defenders, though Robert Huth and Wes Morgan seem to cope okay, you can argue attack is the best form of defence and we lack the right kind of forwards, you can blame injuries, you can even pin it on Paul Scholes. Doesn't really matter. It simply didn't work.

Go home, Louis.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

No reason why the godawful football can't improve. Mentioned it on here the other day, but Fergie nearly pulled a Brendan Rodgers in 1993. Took us to a whisker of that long-awaited title, we blew it and we were horrible for the first half of the following season. Mid-table I believe, and couldn't score goals. Had recorded 6 goals across 12 games in November or whatever. Then Cantona arrives and lifts it..

For me, part of this is the increasing manic-depressive take on football in England. It's always been the way in many other countries, but seems to have become more common here now. Mass and extreme overreaction. We saw it during the Autumn.

As much as people mock him, LvG is right about how the fans were turned partly by the media. When he leaves, I hope we go from strength to strength. But I'll probably always feel we gave up on something special because we lacked patience. Hard to ask that of people paying money, I know, but I fear there is a self-fulfilling prophecy element to the way this season has panned out, imo.

i don't believe you can say the media turned the fans at all tbh, not the mainstream media anyway. they pretty much went after van gaal from day one. the real difference between now and back then is social media and the way the mainstream latch onto it. nqat social media (and forums) have an influence on the way TV football presentations are scripted. it gives mainstream space to the voice of people whining on the internet. is that because the noise they make is valid? or is that because it's the only way to get their attention? on the other hand, circulation of print media has collapsed.

back in 1992 our strike force was a laughing stock, with everyone from saint and greavsie to damo off of brookside to my auntie wading in. after matches the press would give space to the likes of vinny jones and dalian atkinson to tell united how they should fix their strikers. after the blackburn game all the headlines were about our famine.

fergie said after that game, and i quote from memory: "maybe we're a football team, and maybe by our nature that means we don't score many goals". seriously, he said that.

everyone talks about eric arriving as the catalyst, and rightly so, he gave us something extra. but the truth is that before he debuted united had already turned it round with a stylish 3-0 romp at home to oldham and a 1-0 win away at high bury.

something else happened just before eric arrived - robson returned to the team for the oldham game, and darren ferguson (ever present until that point) didn't start a single match for the rest of the season.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

No reason why the godawful football can't improve.

It's the hope that kills you isn't it...

The highlights, all 6 or so games of them over the last two seasons, have been really quite beautiful. I'll long remember the Anfield performance as one of the best exhibitions of pure football that I can remember from any United side in my lifetime.

If there was any indication, literally any whatsoever, that we were getting to that standard on anything like a consistent basis - 15mins here, a move there etc, it wouldn't be a debate. Utd fans everywhere would be uniformly behind the manager & his approach.

The fact of the matter is (for me at least) is his own decision making, his own managerial performance, has been nothing short of woeful. The scattergun approach to tactics, personnel deployed anywhere but where they feel comfortable, the godawful use of substitutions (if I see another pointless £#%&!ing fullback swap it'll be too soon - or tomorrow most likely ) & his overall mentality that not losing is some kind of worthy victory - all of it, everything I can think of just feels like a man scraping the barrel of his own talent.

The parallels with Rooney are pretty stark.

I agree it's unfortunate for Van Gaal that Utd tied such an important player to a contract but equally I find it decidedly poor that Van Gaal can do nothing to work around the issue. At least none that can make us play any football that doesn't make our collective eyes bleed. Rooney's a fading force, but he's not utterly spent. Van Gaal finds ways to exacerbate a situation rather than make the best of it. Rooney's been more & more a problem than an asset because he surrounds him with less & less movement, more & more static footballers that are capable of doing a job (like Lingard for example.) Or worse, £#%&!ing Fellaini. Players that are in the side purely on a physical attribute than a technical one & that reflects Van Gaal in the last few seasons. Papering the cracks with tissue paper.

He's not changing it for the better any time soon & he is retiring in 12 months either way. I don't doubt his motivation (much) but I do doubt his ability to execute anything in his style given the timeframe. It never turns out well when you know the gaffer is leaving as well, doesn't matter who it is or who you have in the squad personnel wise. He's a lame duck.

& he's totally £#%&!ed it up for anyone else who could take over by missing out on the CL as well, in a season like this one, that is criminal.

Originally Posted by Baron

& he's totally £#%&!ed it up for anyone else who could take over by missing out on the CL as well, in a season like this one, that is criminal.

would be an ideal time to bring someone in with less pressure, maybe someone that knows the europa league well. the vermin got klopp with no cl. chelsea have got conte with no cl. city have got guardiola despite going backwards since fluking the title in 2012...

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

would be an ideal time to bring someone in with less pressure, maybe someone that knows the europa league well. the vermin got klopp with no cl. chelsea have got conte with no cl. city have got guardiola despite going backwards since fluking the title in 2012...

Yep often thought we should be hiring a Europa League specialist.

Originally Posted by Sapien

Yep often thought we should be hiring a Europa League specialist.

really? we've only failed to qualify for the cl twice in two decades.