*OFFICIAL* Match Thread - Manchester United v Southampton

Originally Posted by jem

southampton have a good defence.

however, that doesn't explain our passing.

Or Fellaini getting games

Originally Posted by jem

southampton have a good defence.

however, that doesn't explain our passing.

or our lack of %@#$&!s and throwing everything at them to get something from the game.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

It's also controlled the opposition quite well. I liked Rooney's interview yesterday when he pointed that out amidst the So'ton dick-riding. Neville, who is not afraid to stick the boot in, also admitted that we defended pretty well and the football was decent.

Clearly at the moment it lacks a cutting edge, but that doesn't mean the system is at fault. It may need a couple of additions. Certainly I think LvG would want more pace in the side. I expect that will be a priority regardless of whether we persist with this or go 4-3-3.

All arse seeing aside, you often refer to what you think Van Gaal would want, and that's fine, you're probably right, but are you not slightly concerned that what we've got so far isn't quite what we signed up for, it hasn't looked at all like Van Gaal football (well, except Milton Keynes maybe which was classic early Van Gaal )

Dave's return to form aside maybe.

Hoofing it to the fro FFS

I'm not sure a lot of people on here actually know what Van Gaal football is tbf. Don't get me wrong, it's certainly right to expect better than is being served up, but he's never been Kevin Keegan either. Going for wave after wave of attack and neglecting the defence has never been his style. The circulation of the ball, trying to draw errors or players out of position, can appear timid and 'boring' if you don't know better.

Originally Posted by Ethers

I'm not sure a lot of people on here actually know what Van Gaal football is tbf.

Not sure he does

Originally Posted by Ethers

The circulation of the ball, trying to draw errors or players out of position, can appear timid and 'boring' if you don't know better.

That's all well and good when it works. But to my eyes that's not what we've been doing or even trying to do.

Possibly looking into this at a level above my head, but maybe the tactics he's used in European leagues simply don't work at Premier League level. All the best premier league sides, as a rule, have been fast counter attacking outfits or at the very least were sides capable of putting 3 or 4 past opponents on a semi regular basis. Christ, look how close Liverpool came last season doing just that.


I was furious sunday and said I'd want him gone if we didn't get top 4 this season. I've since revised that and I'll do my best to hold off judgement until this time next year (at least), but it's frustrating when most people can see the sides and formation he's going for just isn't working on any level. Yeah, we went 10 unbeaten, but how many of those games were we that convincing in? How many games did Dave pull us out of the shit?

Originally Posted by Ethers

I'm not sure a lot of people on here actually know what Van Gaal football is tbf. Don't get me wrong, it's certainly right to expect better than is being served up, but he's never been Kevin Keegan either. Going for wave after wave of attack and neglecting the defence has never been his style. The circulation of the ball, trying to draw errors or players out of position, can appear timid and 'boring' if you don't know better.

Fair enough. I don't expect Brazil 1970, I know there'll be a lot of keeping shape and focus on discipline etc. I'd just like to see a bit of actual discipline We're playing such dumb, brainless football, that's what I don't get. For all the bitching about pace it's spark we most lack, it's brains. None of the defenders have them, only Van Persie does in the front end, only Carrick in the middle. Desperate.

It's maybe not working as well as it could, but surely nobody can argue that we've made big improvements in terms of keeping possession and moving the ball around without needlessly giving it away?

I don't agree about the counter attacking thing. It's certainly something you need to have in your locker, but if we were set up purely as a counter attacking team we'd struggle constantly at home where teams are happy to shut up shop and give us the ball.

Liverpool are an interesting example, and probably a good demonstration that you'll struggle to win anything by counter attacking if you don't have a solid defensive base to build from.

Originally Posted by Ethers

I'm not sure a lot of people on here actually know what Van Gaal football is tbf. Don't get me wrong, it's certainly right to expect better than is being served up, but he's never been Kevin Keegan either. Going for wave after wave of attack and neglecting the defence has never been his style. The circulation of the ball, trying to draw errors or players out of position, can appear timid and 'boring' if you don't know better.

ZZZzzzzz

What were seeing now is what I hoped he wouldn't bring when he joined, £#%&!ing hate the continental style of football it might work and be accepted in Barcelona but this is Manchester United. We know how we should play as we've played that way for the last 30 years and won everything that can be won, why change?

So frustrating at the moment, basically it's shit. I like van Gaal too, enjoy listening to him and his don't give a £#%&! attitude with the media but so far his football's boring and his attitude in games doesn't fill me with any confidence for the future.

Originally Posted by Ethers

It's maybe not working as well as it could, but surely nobody can argue that we've made big improvements in terms of keeping possession and moving the ball around without needlessly giving it away?

I don't agree about the counter attacking thing. It's certainly something you need to have in your locker, but if we were set up purely as a counter attacking team we'd struggle constantly at home where teams are happy to shut up shop and give us the ball.

Liverpool are an interesting example, and probably a good demonstration that you'll struggle to win anything by counter attacking if you don't have a solid defensive base to build from.

If we were set up as a counter attacking side we'd just have pissing and moaning that the opposition had too much possession.

Originally Posted by That Boy Ronaldo!

ZZZzzzzz

What were seeing now is what I hoped he wouldn't bring when he joined, £#%&!ing hate the continental style of football it might work and be accepted in Barcelona but this is Manchester United. We know how we should play as we've played that way for the last 30 years and won everything that can be won, why change?

So frustrating at the moment, basically it's shit. I like van Gaal too, enjoy listening to him and his don't give a £#%&! attitude with the media but so far his football's boring and his attitude in games doesn't fill me with any confidence for the future.

How can you like LVG but have a problem with continental football?

Originally Posted by That Boy Ronaldo!

ZZZzzzzz

What were seeing now is what I hoped he wouldn't bring when he joined, £#%&!ing hate the continental style of football it might work and be accepted in Barcelona but this is Manchester United. We know how we should play as we've played that way for the last 30 years and won everything that can be won, why change?

So frustrating at the moment, basically it's shit. I like van Gaal too, enjoy listening to him and his don't give a £#%&! attitude with the media but so far his football's boring and his attitude in games doesn't fill me with any confidence for the future.

Yes, because we've played exactly the same way for the last 30 years tbf.

Originally Posted by Ethers

Yes, because we've played exactly the same way for the last 30 years tbf.

Becks and Kanchelskis were effectively the same player tbf.

Originally Posted by Crumps

Becks and Kanchelskis were effectively the same player tbf.

Would love a player like that in the side now

TBR's post is precisely what Ethers means about what people expect from Van Gaal

Originally Posted by Ethers

It's maybe not working as well as it could, but surely nobody can argue that we've made big improvements in terms of keeping possession and moving the ball around without needlessly giving it away?

I don't agree about the counter attacking thing. It's certainly something you need to have in your locker, but if we were set up purely as a counter attacking team we'd struggle constantly at home where teams are happy to shut up shop and give us the ball.

Liverpool are an interesting example, and probably a good demonstration that you'll struggle to win anything by counter attacking if you don't have a solid defensive base to build from.

Yeovil :shakehead:

Originally Posted by Ethers

I'm not sure a lot of people on here actually know what Van Gaal football is tbf. Don't get me wrong, it's certainly right to expect better than is being served up, but he's never been Kevin Keegan either. Going for wave after wave of attack and neglecting the defence has never been his style. The circulation of the ball, trying to draw errors or players out of position, can appear timid and 'boring' if you don't know better.

It can also seem like %@#$&!s when you go back to the 'keeper so often & lump it to Fellaini. If you start him as often as Van Gaal has, or you choose to bring him on when you're losing vs the striker you have or the striker you left out, your philosophy can look a bit shaky because your actions on the pitch belie your words.

Give it a year & another summer of transfer activity, training & purge of shit@#%&!s & I would expect this side to be unrecognisable in the current playing style.

Originally Posted by That Boy Ronaldo!

ZZZzzzzz

What were seeing now is what I hoped he wouldn't bring when he joined, £#%&!ing hate the continental style of football it might work and be accepted in Barcelona but this is Manchester United. We know how we should play as we've played that way for the last 30 years and won everything that can be won, why change?

So frustrating at the moment, basically it's shit. I like van Gaal too, enjoy listening to him and his don't give a £#%&! attitude with the media but so far his football's boring and his attitude in games doesn't fill me with any confidence for the future.

Good post.

We probably shouldn't expect anything different to an arrogant 'I know better' attitude from him, but it really is mental how he's completely ignoring how Frogson dominated this league for 20 years.

Ethers is rubbishing counter-attacking, but it's not something United did at home under Frog, it was mainly an away tactic. van Gaal said a few weeks ago that he doesn't see the difference between home and away games. He doesn't seem to me to be someone who is willing to learn or take on new ideas, he just thinks he's going to impose his ideas on everyone else and at the moment it's clearly not working very well.

Originally Posted by Baron

It can also seem like %@#$&!s when you go back to the 'keeper so often & lump it to Fellaini. If you start him as often as Van Gaal has, or you choose to bring him on when you're losing vs the striker you have or the striker you left out, your philosophy can look a bit shaky because your actions on the pitch belie your words.

Give it a year & another summer of transfer activity, training & purge of shit@#%&!s & I would expect this side to be unrecognisable in the current playing style.

I'm not sure he's said anything that contradicts throwing Fellaini on has he?

Bringing a big man on when he needs a goal is something he's done before. He did it at the World Cup, he did it at Bayern with Van Buyten.

It's also something Frogson himself resorted to, albeit very rarely.

Freggle put Smalling up forward when we needed a goal once

It worked too, though it was Macheda and Vidic who actually scored.

Originally Posted by Crumps

Becks and Kanchelskis were effectively the same player tbf.

Same team setup though.

Originally Posted by Ethers

I'm not sure he's said anything that contradicts throwing Fellaini on has he?

Bringing a big man on when he needs a goal is something he's done before. He did it at the World Cup, he did it at Bayern with Van Buyten.

It's also something Frogson himself resorted to, albeit very rarely.

What about starting the useless @#%&! & employing the tactic from minute one?

We're near the top of the pile for long balls over the course of the season.

I know he doesn't necessarily want to play that... but it shows how badly the players are getting to grips with the possession game he does want. Better players & some fit ones at that would obviously help.

Have we put in a single performance worthy of the talent we have in the squad all season? Hull & QPR at home I think were about the only ones mentioned in the article from DT & Van Gaal himself - both utter shit sides. We've been really pretty shit, & that's the long & short of it for me so far.

I really, really hope we can keep the right players fit til the end of the season so we can kick on as he's inferring, but something is nagging me about the style of play & the frankly perplexing use of subs through the whole season. He's not used Januzaj right, I personally think Rooney's a massive waste where he is, Di Maria is baffling up front, Mata is not a centre mid, Herrera is a pariah by the looks of things, Fellaini starting wayyyy to much the useless £#%&!ing lummox, Shaw as a wingback... three at the back is disastrous etc, can the volume of injuries really be attributed to bad luck?

Lots more questions than answers at this stage of his tenure. But as Daniel Harris said on Twitter - it can be distilled to this - where there was no hope before, there certainly is now.

Just with some questions, & I hope to see them answered by the giant %@#$&!ed Dutch mentalist in the coming months hopefully.

Originally Posted by That Boy Ronaldo!

Same team setup though.

Four four bloody two!

Originally Posted by Ethers

I'm not sure a lot of people on here actually know what Van Gaal football is tbf. Don't get me wrong, it's certainly right to expect better than is being served up, but he's never been Kevin Keegan either. Going for wave after wave of attack and neglecting the defence has never been his style. The circulation of the ball, trying to draw errors or players out of position, can appear timid and 'boring' if you don't know better.

the problem is that our circulation of the ball only draws errors out of our players (most whom start the game out of position). it's not so much the tactics as the execution, mainly due to lvg using the wrong players to do the job. there is no accounting for, say, di maria's form and inability to pass 10 yards to his own team, but there absolutely is an issue with our shapeless attacking play and the fact that we play two wing-backs who can't, won't and have been instructed not to cross. lvg, like moyes (yes, like moyes), keeps picking teams with no balance and players not in their best positions. there is no excuse for this. the bizarre subs, too - bringing mata on v leicester was criminal.