Vidic offski

Never understand this age thing, it seems to get lower every £#%&!ing year. Soon folk we'll be saying a player who is 26 is finished or his 'best years are behind him'.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

Not really true.

Stam was sold soon after the arrival of Veron, and replaced by Blanc. Van Nistelrooy was signed using the previous season's transfer budget. A couple of years down the line and Veron and Beckham were sold and replaced with Ronaldo: books balanced. Rooney was bought using the transfer budget from 2 summer windows.

That's kinda my point, though - in those days, 'books balanced' meant transfer spending & income generally matched.

As shown last summer, now it's sell big/buy cheap just to make the finances less worse.

Originally Posted by Whalefish

Never understand this age thing, it seems to get lower every £#%&!ing year. Soon folk we'll be saying a player who is 26 is finished or his 'best years are behind him'.

As players get fitter, improve their diet, have improved medical care, play longer into their 30s...they become past it at an earlier age. Apparently.

Originally Posted by Whalefish

Never understand this age thing, it seems to get lower every £#%&!ing year. Soon folk we'll be saying a player who is 26 is finished or his 'best years are behind him'.

I've seen Rio written off about 6 times in the last few days he's 31 and has had an injury brought on by almost constant football for 10 years (bans aside ). If they have found the problem and sorted it, which they probably will do, he'll play till he's near £#%&!ing 40, and will be effective too.

Originally Posted by MrBishi

That's kinda my point, though - in those days, 'books balanced' meant transfer spending & income generally matched.

As shown last summer, now it's sell big/buy cheap just to make the finances less worse.

Who was our last big departure prior to Ronaldo?

Ruud at £10m?

Yet we signed Berbatov, Hargreaves, Carrick, Anderson, Nani, Valencia... oh £#%&! it.

We still have to balance the books to an extent, as we always have done. The signing of Owen and Obertan and the sale of Ronaldo has screwed everyone's perspective on our transfer business.

This £80m is a £#%&!ing albatross, burning a hole in all the fans pockets. If we were to win the quadruple this season there would still be a call for us to spend the £#%&!ing money. It's got £#%&! all to do with what is actually happening with the team, it's the appearance of spending the money, stamping our feet, making a statement.

Originally Posted by dunk

I've seen Rio written off about 6 times in the last few days he's 31 and has had an injury brought on by almost constant football for 10 years (bans aside ). If they have found the problem and sorted it, which they probably will do, he'll play till he's near £#%&!ing 40, and will be effective too.

With a 'normal' inury, i'd tend to agree. But he has back problems. Which leads to other injuries, as we have seen. An extremely difficult problem to resolve. I suspect it will trouble him big-time for the rest of his career.

Originally Posted by MrBishi

That's kinda my point, though - in those days, 'books balanced' meant transfer spending & income generally matched.

As shown last summer, now it's sell big/buy cheap just to make the finances less worse.

Well yep, maybe. Ronaldo was a bit of an exceptional case though, and we did sell Beckham as he was reaching his peak after all.

It's disappointing that both Pique and now it seems Vidic want out. Vidic has pointedly stated his pleasure at playing for United though this season, and although there is undoubtedly some truth behind this latest inevitable round of press bullshit it is by no means a done deal that he will be sold this summer. Then again, is the world cup more likely to affect his price tag positively or negatively?

Originally Posted by Coracao

With a 'normal' inury, i'd tend to agree. But he has back problems. Which leads to other injuries, as we have seen. An extremely difficult problem to resolve. I suspect it will trouble him big-time for the rest of his career.

Maybe, do you think the same of Obertan who also had back problems? Or Gerrard, who's early career was blighted by similar issues?

It all depends on the nature of the problem, if they get to the route of it and correct it, he'll be fine.

Originally Posted by Coracao

As players get fitter, improve their diet, have improved medical care, play longer into their 30s...they become past it at an earlier age. Apparently.

Is there really any professional sport where the best players don't tend to reach the top at an earlier and earlier age as the years go by?

The question then becomes one of ambition, dedication and raw natural physique.

What have I been saying since last summer?

Vidic can go. Im not arsed. He hasnt been the same player since he got roasted by torres at OT last season. Jesus if we can cope without ronaldo then we can certainly cope without vidic.

He has been a very good player for us but he wants to go so bin him off.

Originally Posted by dunk

Maybe, do you think the same of Obertan who also had back problems? Or Gerrard, who's early career was blighted by similar issues?

It all depends on the nature of the problem, if they get to the route of it and correct it, he'll be fine.

Gerrard and Ferdinand are hardly comparable cases. Gerrard's problems were due to growth, he was a teenager at the time. Obertan is probably a similar case, but there isn't much information on his problem.

Now, unless Ferdinand is still growing...

They will no doubt get him 'fit' and then problems will re-occur.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

Is there really any professional sport where the best players don't tend to reach the top at an earlier and earlier age as the years go by?

The question then becomes one of ambition, dedication and raw natural physique.

There's quite a few i'd imagine.

Originally Posted by Coracao

Gerrard and Ferdinand are hardly comparable cases. Gerrard's problems were due to growth, he was a teenager at the time. Obertan is probably a similar case, but there isn't much information on his problem.

Now, unless Ferdinand is still growing...

They will no doubt get him 'fit' and then problems will re-occur.

They were still back problems, and were linked to posture and things of that nature. There is every chance Ferdinand's problems lie along the same line. I'm just thinking positively, and hoping he doesn't have Pallister like issues , his physique is better than Pally's though, more athletic and suited to sport, so there's hope imo.

Originally Posted by Coracao

There's quite a few i'd imagine.

Take a stab at naming a couple of them then and let's compare them with the current and very clear trends in football.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

Take a stab at naming a couple of them then and let's compare them with the current and very clear trends in football.

Federer was the very best, possibly the best ever at 24/25, but last year was declared on the wane with his best years behind him at, what, 28? Because Nadal is now the 'Best Ever' at 22 or something?

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

Take a stab at naming a couple of them then and let's compare them with the current and very clear trends in football.

I'm sure i'm about to be bored into oblivion here, but here goes...

Boxing to name 1.

The top 5 of the pound for pound list are all aged over 30.

3 of them over the age of 35.

Not sure what you are going to compare it to football for though. You said is there any professional sport...

Originally Posted by Coracao

Really...

fair enough, i have to admit i didn't read all the shite earlier in the thread

And people saying they won't be sad to see him go, is tantamount to saying he won't be missed in my view.

The rest of your post is irrelevent to what I was pointing out. Which is the absolute fickleness of some on here.

well, fickle is hardly new. fwiw i've been saying for a while that we need to built our defence around evans. he's already worthy of a first team spot on merit and it's scary to think how good that lad can get in five years.



there's a lot of nostalgic falsifying going on here. when have united ever signed genuine superstar names? it's just not something we do - not something any english team does, tbh, especially not from spain or italy. why people are expecting fergie to suddenly change his habits and sign a spaniard (villa or silva seem the two) for 30-odd million quid i don't know. the likes of hamsik, dzeko etc are far more likely. not because we don't have money (we may, we may not) but because it's just not fergie's modus operandi. fergie has a lot more in common with wenger in that regard than is generally acknowledged - or, rather, fergie has been doing for years the things wenger is seen as inventing; except that fergie does it with a youth system and a british spine, while wenger scouts abroad.

I've got no interest in you, or how you die. Individual sports have been littered with high profile big achievers at a young age for years now, especially tennis - Sharapova, Nadal, Hingis etc etc. Footballers are reaching the top younger and that's a simple fact. You only have to look at the current top players to see this: Del Piero and Giggs are sensational in their mid 30s but they've been doing it for over a decade. Kaka was at least as good as he is now at the 2002 world cup. Rooney went for 20 odd million as a teenager. Ronaldo and Messi are the two best players in the world.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

I've got no interest in you, or how you die. Individual sports have been littered with high profile big achievers at a young age for years now, especially tennis - Sharapova, Nadal, Hingis etc etc. Footballers are reaching the top younger and that's a simple fact. You only have to look at the current top players to see this: Del Piero and Giggs are sensational in their mid 30s but they've been doing it for over a decade. Kaka was at least as good as he is now at the 2002 world cup. Rooney went for 20 odd million as a teenager. Ronaldo and Messi are the two best players in the world.

Great post. Proved nothing really.

I just thought it was pertinent to compare them with football, that's all.

So far we have boxing, where you have to wait for the big money anyway. How about rowing? That's a nice exciting sport. Aren't they at university or something though?