Ole

Originally Posted by Coracao

What's your point? The standard across Europe with the exception of Bayern is woeful.

So it's not just the Premier League that the standard is woeful, but pretty much every league in Europe? And despite the fact that the Premier League is probably the best standard in the whole of Europe, it still means that our current position in the league can't be taken seriously. So the standard of our league is high compared to the rest of Europe, but not high enough that we can take any satisfaction in currently being the second best team in the best league in Europe.

This 'standard' bullshit is weary.

In truth, 'smaller' clubs in England have been able to make massive improvements over the past decade on and off the pitch and it has closed the gap between 'big clubs' and 'smaller clubs'. You don't get the days of On-the-ale FC in the Premier League getting thumped week in and week out by big clubs that are run like proper professional outfits anymore. All Premier League clubs are ran properly now, and all players are treated like finely tuned machines. And if a club isn't set up that way, then they won't get anywhere near the Premier League. The gap between the 'smaller' clubs and the 'bigger' clubs has never been narrower, Everton have Ancelotti as manager ffs

That means standards are getting higher across the board, not lower.

But if you really need to a stick to beat the club over the head with, then carry on kidding yourself.

Originally Posted by Ronny

Today was evidence to the contrary I’m afraid.

One game and all that

We’ve got a few average players that would be decent squad filler

But not that many actual shit@#%&!s.

Originally Posted by Ronny

Today was evidence to the contrary I’m afraid.

Decent players having a bad day (or indeed once good servants who are simply past it, like Matic) aren't "shit@#%&!s". Maybe only Fred falls into that category, and even that is arguable.

Matic has two more years, Martial 4,Dave is the highest paid Spanish footballer in the world.
Not shit@#%&!s true but gonna take some shifting

Originally Posted by Ronny

Matic has two more years, Martial 4,Dave is the highest paid Spanish footballer in the world.
Not shit@#%&!s true but gonna take some shifting

Yeah so like I said not many shit@#%&!s left... Ole



Agree it’ll probably take a while to shift a few of them but that’s what happens when we keep changing managers ever couple of years and the same players get chance after chance and you have an imbecile like Woodward and his team making footballing decisions.

Said at the time that the martial contract was crazy because he’d done nothing to earn it. But apparently he’s one of the owners favourite players

Originally Posted by Tronics

proper feminine trait that

bye bye girlfriend

Originally Posted by Ronny

People complaining about our slow mindless side to side passing and lack of movement up front.
Need to remember why Carrick, our first team coach for the last three years, was nicknamed the crab back in the day.
He is the issue with this teams crap football IMO.

Good point, also he is a gormless nerk too.

Matic was a year and an option, same as Mata, wasn’t it?

Getting rid of DdG, Jones, A CB, Matic, Mata, Pereira and Cavani has to be this summer’s priority. Pogba too, probably.

Generate some funds and try and buy genuine competitions for first team spots at CB, CMx2, RW and CF.. somehow..

Originally Posted by AK14

Yeah so like I said not many shitc***s left... Ole



Agree it’ll probably take a while to shift a few of them but that’s what happens when we keep changing managers ever couple of years and the same players get chance after chance and you have an imbecile like Woodward and his team making footballing decisions.

Said at the time that the martial contract was crazy because he’d done nothing to earn it. But apparently he’s one of the owners favourite players

Maybe they could teach him to learn that alternate type of football becasue he is useless at proper football.

Matic got three year deal I think you’ll find.
Last summer was as much of a £#%&! up as all the others.
Woodward must let the football side prioritise the signings this window.

Originally Posted by NedKelly

Some days I half hope we will sack him, so when the cycle of failure inevitably repeats itself under another manager while jokes like Woodward pull the strings, those of us speaking sense can turn around and say “told you so”. Some proper knee jerk w****rs on here.

It's not knee jerk to be concerned about our playing style ( we don't have one) or the total lack of urgency or pace in the team.
We are dog shite to watch, if Moyes was here serving this shit up you would be foaming at the mouth. The manager is totally out of his depth. He has been rescued all season by Bruno turning on a bit of magic. When Bruno doesn't pull us out of the shit. We fail.

Originally Posted by Patty_b

So it's not just the Premier League that the standard is woeful, but pretty much every league in Europe? And despite the fact that the Premier League is probably the best standard in the whole of Europe, it still means that our current position in the league can't be taken seriously. So the standard of our league is high compared to the rest of Europe, but not high enough that we can take any satisfaction in currently being the second best team in the best league in Europe.

This 'standard' bullshit is weary.

In truth, 'smaller' clubs in England have been able to make massive improvements over the past decade on and off the pitch and it has closed the gap between 'big clubs' and 'smaller clubs'. You don't get the days of On-the-ale FC in the Premier League getting thumped week in and week out by big clubs that are run like proper professional outfits anymore. All Premier League clubs are ran properly now, and all players are treated like finely tuned machines. And if a club isn't set up that way, then they won't get anywhere near the Premier League. The gap between the 'smaller' clubs and the 'bigger' clubs has never been narrower, Everton have Ancelotti as manager ffs

That means standards are getting higher across the board, not lower.

But if you really need to a stick to beat the club over the head with, then carry on kidding yourself.

Meanwhile, Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal have some of their worst sides of the last 20 years. Spurs one of their worst of the last decade. Liverpool getting beat 6 times on the spin at home We are second with a side that has weaknesses all over the place. The standard of the top sides is piss poor, and the majority of them would be squashed by the better sides that these clubs have had in the last decade. Even the City side is someway removed from their best, and they might win all 4 trophies.

I've been saying that European football has been dipping for 4 or 5 years. Now it has probably reached its all-time low. English team's increased competitiveness does not translate into the Premier League being laden with great or even good football teams. It is an incredibly weak period for European football sides.

Originally Posted by Tronics

he’s dogshit that’s why

these players are wasted on him those jokers on the sidelines

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Its fine. But it's just boring wheh it's clearly a part of an act. Which is why you have been banned.

You don't really post when we win etc.

Originally Posted by Coracao

Meanwhile, Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal have some of their worst sides of the last 20 years. Spurs one of their worst of the last decade. Liverpool getting beat 6 times on the spin at home We are second with a side that has weaknesses all over the place. The standard of the top sides is piss poor, and the majority of them would be squashed by the better sides that these clubs have had in the last decade. Even the City side is someway removed from their best, and they might win all 4 trophies.

I've been saying that European football has been dipping for 4 or 5 years. Now it has probably reached its all-time low. English team's increased competitiveness does not translate into the Premier League being laden with great or even good football teams. It is an incredibly weak period for European football sides.

Hum, football has been on bad track as sport ever since they abolished the Cup winners cup. Here is an article that speaks about the current CL format and how it has drained the competives out of the domestic game on past 20 years or so.
https://www.englishfootballleaguetab...og/plcomp.html

I want point out two things the article doesn't mention at all for this drain of competiveness cross the bord in football.
1) Abolishing the Cup Winners Cup. (our 1998-99 was/is not the reason why competiveness in football dried up in past 20 years or so, if anything UEFA owed United one free CL win considering Munich air disaster, but generally speaking 2nd place teams were generally in the title race until the bitter end while 3rd and 4th place teams were not so UEFA watered the CL down when they allowed those placed teams in not 2nd placed teams. United was just 1 point removed from the EPL title in 1994-95, 1997-98)
2) Influx of external money not genterated in the game which has let many to belive that for football to remain competive teams need to splash the cash like there is no tomorrow and see what sticks.

Considering all this I suspect football is in for a day of reckoning at somepoint, the latest proposal by UEFA to appese the elite clubs over the super league threat is ugly and will only make matter worse than they currently are.

Originally Posted by JamesPolk

Hum, football has been on bad track as sport ever since they abolished the Cup winners cup. Here is an article that speaks about the current CL format and how it has drained the competives out of the domestic game on past 20 years or so.
https://www.englishfootballleaguetab...og/plcomp.html

Considering all this I suspect football is in for a day of reckoning at somepoint, the latest proposal by UEFA to appese the elite clubs over the super league threat is ugly and will only make matter worse than they currently are.

Will have a read tomorrow pal.

Uefa killed part of European football when they started letting multiple teams from the same country in the European Cup. They effectively killed off the incentive for any player to stay at a club that wasn't in England, Germany, Spain or Italy. Top players are picked off these Portuguese and Dutch teams now before they are out of their teens, or even the academy system.

The last 15 years or so has seen competitiveness reduce further as clubs stockpile players due to the size of the squads that are being used.

CL has become a complete bore. Same teams playing year in, year out.

On top of that, you've got two other factors.

Fear of relegation from the Premier League. Anyone below 10th at Christmas is going to be wary of giving goals/points away and throw more behind the ball. It isn't as easy on the eye and looks like being of worse quality. Largely a result of the gulf in wealth between the PL and the Championship.

Throw in the fact that the wealth has been spread around the Premier League itself more - the likes of Villa no longer feel obliged to sell players to the top six to survive.

Originally Posted by Ronny

People complaining about our slow mindless side to side passing and lack of movement up front.
Need to remember why Carrick, our first team coach for the last three years, was nicknamed the crab back in the day.
He is the issue with this teams crap football IMO.

Originally Posted by Tuco

Good point, also he is a gormless nerk too.

It might be a good point if it weren’t for the fact Ray Wilkins was nicknamed the crab.

Carrick would transform our midfield. So would Ray Wilkins. Probably throw one of you two in to be fair.

But let’s not stray from the point. Manager and coaches are doing a satisfactory job for where we are as a club.

Buckle in. They’re going nowhere.

Originally Posted by Coracao

Meanwhile, Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal have some of their worst sides of the last 20 years. Spurs one of their worst of the last decade. Liverpool getting beat 6 times on the spin at home

Don't agree with that all. This Chelsea side is not the weakest Chelsea side for 20 years, it's not the best for the past two decades, but it's definately not the worst. Same with the Arsenal side, it's nowhere near the best Arsenal side, but they've had worst teams in the past two decades. My point is that whereas Arsenal and Chelsea could get away with having weaker squads in the past and still make top four pretty much every season, the standard of the league as a whole as improved to the point where they now can't just turn up with a half decent team and a plan and expect to get Champions League football next season.

On Spurs, how is this the worst team they have had in the past decade It's pretty much the same Spurs team that almost won the league and reached a Champions League final.

Same with Liverpool, it's practically the same Liverpool team that reached the Champions League final in 2018, won it in 2019 and then won the league last year. The only difference is that their younger players have matured.

Not sure how they're the worst sides they have had in the past 10 - 20 years.

Ours probably is, although I'd put the squad Ole had when he took over ahead of this current squad in the shit list. But when you have had what we have had for the better part of two decades with the best manager who has ever lived at the helm building those sides, a drop of standard isn't exactly difficult.

Originally Posted by Coracao

We are second with a side that has weaknesses all over the place. The standard of the top sides is piss poor, and the majority of them would be squashed by the better sides that these clubs have had in the last decade. Even the City side is someway removed from their best, and they might win all 4 trophies.

Every team has weaknesses, it's just nowadays they are exploited more by opposition teams that have also got better over time. Rather than the best teams getting worse, the worse teams have got better.

And City are not someway removed from their best ffs, they're probably on par with the best they have ever been. I hate saying it, but put that City team in any other Premier League season and they would probably win it. But that's because they are a roided, cheating, cancerous growth on the arse of football.

Originally Posted by Coracao

I've been saying that European football has been dipping for 4 or 5 years. Now it has probably reached its all-time low. English team's increased competitiveness does not translate into the Premier League being laden with great or even good football teams. It is an incredibly weak period for European football sides.

It really hasn't, there has always been a skill ceiling on how good football teams can be, and although it gets higher, it's always slow going. The difference is, is that the skill floor has increased at a much faster rate, narrowing the gap between the bottom and top clubs.

You say that the standard has dropped, but now every club are getting better at looking after their players, recruiting better players, having money to spend on recruitment, sports sciences, analysing games and oppositions. All those standards have increased and are being adopted by professional clubs. Innovation in football is slow going, however the adoption of any innovation is now extremely rapid throughout.

tldr; You think West Ham being in 5th and Arsenal being in 9th shows how the standards have dropped. I think that it shows that the standard has got better. Rather than there being three clubs competing for the top three spots, there are 8 or 9 clubs competing for the top four.

That's why I think Ole taking us to second in the League is a good sign and that he is doing a good job. Rather than getting in second in the league with next to no real competition, he's doing it when practically half the teams in the league are capable of challanging for the spot.

I'm not going into a multi paragraphed back and forth as it is clear this is something we will not agree on, nor will our stances be changed. If you can't see that the level of football has regressed significantly across the top sides, then fair enough.

Originally Posted by Spock

who gives a £#%&! about the cl if we are not competing in the premier league, we are not liverpool ffs

This is why I have reservations about the future under Ole unless we pull off the europa.

Will the majority of United fans accept us getting cl football again with a low points total while winning £#%&! all (and playing quite dull football)?

We seem to be on the road to nowhere at least tactically and strategy wise. 2 and a half years on. No matter how much we love our manager this is a question that is hard to answer. What kind of football team are we? What does a typical United goal look like these days?

As long as we keep getting top 4 does nothing else matter?