James Trafford - £19m

Originally Posted by Baron

https://twitter.com/David_Ornstein/s...941679618?s=20

Cost them £10m last summer, selling for potentially £50m - 20% sell on clause for City so Soton will potentially make ~£30m.

Makes a lot more sense to do that in one season than to recruit a load of kids, have almost none of them make it & sell at the earliest chance that another club spots them for £10m-15m.

Like it or not, the game is evolving due to the sums involved.

Brentford did similar, they don't have a youth team or even reserves - just a "b" team or similar & a series of loans. It works for them, I couldn't give a £#%&! personally.

I want United to have a youth system, bring our players through & be ingrained with the United way - only the last player to really do that was Greenwood ffs.

Lots of worrying what other clubs are doing on here, we just need to get our own house in order. The club has been a mess for a decade, it's not a shock to discover things are very different to how we expect them to be if we're left so far behind off the pitch such as the loan / youth set-ups.

What City and chelsea have done is find a way to offset their exorbitant spending by hoovering up young talent on an industrial scale and then farming them out.

They don't recruit young players with an eye to producing talent in the first team, they recruit them as assets to be cashed in later. That's the main difference. I'd hate for United to turn into that.

Originally Posted by Baron

https://twitter.com/David_Ornstein/s...941679618?s=20

Cost them £10m last summer, selling for potentially £50m - 20% sell on clause for City so Soton will potentially make ~£30m.

Makes a lot more sense to do that in one season than to recruit a load of kids, have almost none of them make it & sell at the earliest chance that another club spots them for £10m-15m.

Like it or not, the game is evolving due to the sums involved.

Brentford did similar, they don't have a youth team or even reserves - just a "b" team or similar & a series of loans. It works for them, I couldn't give a £#%&! personally.

I want United to have a youth system, bring our players through & be ingrained with the United way - only the last player to really do that was Greenwood ffs.

Lots of worrying what other clubs are doing on here, we just need to get our own house in order. The club has been a mess for a decade, it's not a shock to discover things are very different to how we expect them to be if we're left so far behind off the pitch such as the loan / youth set-ups.

Very good post

It’s not collusion it’s just clubs being run properly with highly rated young players.

The problem on here is no one wants to even acknowledge united have been doing shit for a while.

Just look at the youth products we are disposing off, all in areas we are then subsequently buying players in.

Hopefully mainoo be part of a positive wave going forwards.

Ironically enough in 2 years it might be us going in for James Trafford for 40-50m

More worryingly is lavia is going to Liverpool.
He is very very good and gonna be a monster.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

What City and chelsea have done is find a way to offset their exorbitant spending by hoovering up young talent on an industrial scale and then farming them out.

They don't recruit young players with an eye to producing talent in the first team, they recruit them as assets to be cashed in later. That's the main difference. I'd hate for United to turn into that.

Not entirely true.
City just happen to be so good these young players aren’t good enough to stake a claim at the club but too good to just hang around outside the match day 18.

The ones that are special enough make it like rico Lewis, cole palmer and foden.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

What City and chelsea have done is find a way to offset their exorbitant spending by hoovering up young talent on an industrial scale and then farming them out.

They don't recruit young players with an eye to producing talent in the first team, they recruit them as assets to be cashed in later. That's the main difference. I'd hate for United to turn into that.

Completely agree, but the hit rate for that & FFP conditions mean it's always going to change the landscape.

There is no perfect way to manage, someone always finds a way to effectively manipulate the market & gain an advantage. Similarly the old guard never want anything to change as it protects their interests.

I think ironically that the US sports & their draft system has the most equitable process for talent distribution but we'll never be able to adopt anything like it for obvious reasons.

Either way, we're lacking in managing any kind of hybrid version of developing talent vs gathering top class youth prospects to be able to help fund bigger transfers & traverse the issues FFP rightly or wrongly bring into play.

Originally Posted by marlo

The problem on here is no one wants to even acknowledge united have been doing shit for a while.

What?

Literally everyone here says we've been doing shit for a while, but this is a whole slew of new people now, so to keep slagging us off as though Woodward were still here is moronic until we see how they do. So far it's been a significant improvement.

Originally Posted by marlo

Very good post

It’s not collusion it’s just clubs being run properly with highly rated young players.

The problem on here is no one wants to even acknowledge united have been doing shit for a while.

Just look at the youth products we are disposing off, all in areas we are then subsequently buying players in.

Hopefully mainoo be part of a positive wave going forwards.

Ironically enough in 2 years it might be us going in for James Trafford for 40-50m

More worryingly is lavia is going to Liverpool.
He is very very good and gonna be a monster.




Not entirely true.
City just happen to be so good these young players aren’t good enough to stake a claim at the club but too good to just hang around outside the match day 18.

The ones that are special enough make it like rico Lewis, cole palmer and foden.

You don't spend much time on here do you?

Originally Posted by Baron

https://twitter.com/David_Ornstein/s...941679618?s=20

Cost them £10m last summer, selling for potentially £50m - 20% sell on clause for City so Soton will potentially make ~£30m.

Makes a lot more sense to do that in one season than to recruit a load of kids, have almost none of them make it & sell at the earliest chance that another club spots them for £10m-15m.

Like it or not, the game is evolving due to the sums involved.

Brentford did similar, they don't have a youth team or even reserves - just a "b" team or similar & a series of loans. It works for them, I couldn't give a £#%&! personally.

I want United to have a youth system, bring our players through & be ingrained with the United way - only the last player to really do that was Greenwood ffs.

Lots of worrying what other clubs are doing on here, we just need to get our own house in order. The club has been a mess for a decade, it's not a shock to discover things are very different to how we expect them to be if we're left so far behind off the pitch such as the loan / youth set-ups.

Not sure it makes a lot of sense for Southampton given they got relegated from the Premier League because they replaced a bunch of experienced players (and an experienced manager) with unproven kids (and unproven managers)

They've got one of those youth signings from city to work which they are selling for a nice profit but they'll ultimately probably make a loss on all the other City youth players they signed while being relegated to the championship

They better hope they have a good start to the season otherwise the Southampton fans should be hounding Jason Wilcox and the other City stooges they brought in out of the club

Originally Posted by BigJim

What?

Literally everyone here says we've been doing shit for a while, but this is a whole slew of new people now, so to keep slagging us off as though Woodward were still here is moronic until we see how they do. So far it's been a significant improvement.

Originally Posted by measlyshark

You don't spend much time on here do you?

Originally Posted by measlyshark

You don't spend much time on here do you?

I know.

yeah we're famous on here for not calling out United for doing shit on and off the pitch

Originally Posted by BigJim

What?

Literally everyone here says we've been doing shit for a while, but this is a whole slew of new people now, so to keep slagging us off as though Woodward were still here is moronic until we see how they do. So far it's been a significant improvement.

Woodward isn’t still here but the job for boys is stil going on.

Season starts in little over 2 weeks and we haven’t signed a striker. that’s bad planning , there should have been a list of targets drawn up by the time weghorst had gone 10 games without a goal and we work down at the end of may while dangling a carrot infront of spurs incase they bite.

Fletcher has no business being part of director staff. Nostragic aesthetics of turning up with saf at away grounds doesn’t equal success.

Originally Posted by ZiggyStardust

Not sure it makes a lot of sense for Southampton given they got relegated from the Premier League because they replaced a bunch of experienced players (and an experienced manager) with unproven kids (and unproven managers)

They've got one of those youth signings from city to work which they are selling for a nice profit but they'll ultimately probably make a loss on all the other City youth players they signed while being relegated to the championship

They better hope they have a good start to the season otherwise the Southampton fans should be hounding Jason Wilcox and the other City stooges they brought in out of the club

Well clearly last season wasn't good for them, but that wouldn't be off the back of buying Lavia. It was just an example of why they'd look to buy quality youth products from the top teams & sell them on. Their other recruitment was clearly flawed, not least their managers / coaches.

Originally Posted by Baron

Completely agree, but the hit rate for that & FFP conditions mean it's always going to change the landscape.

There is no perfect way to manage, someone always finds a way to effectively manipulate the market & gain an advantage. Similarly the old guard never want anything to change as it protects their interests.

I think ironically that the US sports & their draft system has the most equitable process for talent distribution but we'll never be able to adopt anything like it for obvious reasons.

Either way, we're lacking in managing any kind of hybrid version of developing talent vs gathering top class youth prospects to be able to help fund bigger transfers & traverse the issues FFP rightly or wrongly bring into play.

It's a number game at the end of the day really. City release and sell about 30 players every season. They must have an astounding number of footballers on their books. They've hoovered up players from all corners of the country, bought their parents houses, paid for private education. Obviously United haven't got the financial muscle or infrastructure to pull off that kind of operation as it would cost untold millions.

We have a tradition and proud heritage of bringing in young players for our first team through the academy and that's our primary objective. For all the bodies that go through City's cattle-market of an academy they've produced relatively £#%&! all for the first team. What they do is sell them before they enter the first team and their value drops because then it becomes clear they're not that good.

Originally Posted by marlo

The ones that are special enough make it like rico Lewis, cole palmer and foden.

3 players in 13 years (is it?) Since they started getting illegitimate sources of income. 3 players, only 1 of which has been a regular starter (but not recently...) and you're praising their system...

Sparky is absolutely right. They literally hoover up as much youth talent as they can by any means. When they inevitably sell them on for (inflated) fees, it then classes as a 'homegrown' bonus which counts extra towards FFP. You should do some research into the way all the clubs in the 'city group' ( ) operate.

I don't think anyone is saying city are stupid marlo. Quite the opposite. But you'll have you make your own judgement as to if you think it's having a positive effect on the state of the game

Originally Posted by Whip Hubley

. They literally hoover up as much youth talent as they can by any means. When they inevitably sell them on for (inflated) fees, it then classes as a 'homegrown' bonus which counts extra towards FFP. You should do some research into the way all the clubs in the 'city group' ( ) operate.

I don't think anyone is saying city are stupid marlo. Quite the opposite. But you'll have you make your own judgement as to if you think it's having a positive effect on the state of the game

its not just them hoovering up the best talent its because they have been investing in their academies.

theres a reason our own director of football (fletcher) sent his twin boys to city academy we are having to buy then for 600k each this summer.

having a positive impact in the game is subjective and stinks of sour grapes. its usually the most successful clubs that have the best talents and we used to do the same with our players.
when we were flying ....there was a time 10-12 of the premiership had our academy players in their squad.(the Jonathan spectors, Phil bardsley , Richardson, eagles etc)

hopefully ETH can rejuvenate the academy system and theres small signs on that int he fact he flew out the academy team separately to play wrexham meaning they are not being forsaken etc.

Originally Posted by marlo

its not just them hoovering up the best talent its because they have been investing in their academies.

theres a reason our own director of football (fletcher) sent his twin boys to city academy we are having to buy then for 600k each this summer.

having a positive impact in the game is subjective and stinks of sour grapes. its usually the most successful clubs that have the best talents and we used to do the same with our players.
when we were flying ....there was a time 10-12 of the premiership had our academy players in their squad.(the Jonathan spectors, Phil bardsley , Richardson, eagles etc)

hopefully ETH can rejuvenate the academy system and theres small signs on that int he fact he flew out the academy team separately to play wrexham meaning they are not being forsaken etc.

Good point in general, but I’m not sure the bit in brackets helps your case.

Originally Posted by Finport Red

Good point in general, but I’m not sure the bit in brackets helps your case.

they were average players with potential not quite good enough for us.

the equivalents are the players bottom half premiership teams are scooping up with a hope of selling them on.

back in the nearly 2000s it was united and arsenal acting like city and Chelsea. as we were the two most successful teams at the time.
I remember a time parma had two highly rated youngsters, we and arsenal split it down the middle and took one each.
rossi and lupoli.

there was also a team we have a few young players scattering them all around the league and our feeder club NEC at the time.

so Chelsea and city rightfully but wrongfully have ill gotten gains or whatever funding their club but they also have a policy of installing best in class football men in the club hierarchy which is why they are finding these youngsters and developing them and so on.
we on the other hand love a past glories aesthetic approach which we are seeing the results of.

look at laviaa for example.
city signed him from anderlect in 2020. was around the first team 20/21. made one ecl appearance couldnt break into a team and was sold to Southampton for 10m *some would scream conspiracy*
made 29 appearances and now being sold on for between 35-50 to a top 6 team.
thats nothing but a academy and recruitment system that is working well.

Fletcher isn’t our director of football.

City are buying a 16 year old CB off us for £1.5m too btw.

Originally Posted by dunk

Fletcher isn’t our director of football.

your right and I left this carrot hanging for you.

our director of football was just an appeasement exercise as his role is very limited and almost administrative.

our duo who current fill the traditional roles of a director of football are murthogh and fletcher.

all explained here darling.

https://utddistrict.co.uk/what-will-...do/17/02/2023/

Now, there was an initial confusion among fans, who rightly stated that Manchester United already employ a Football Director, John Murtough. He works alongside Darren Fletcher who is the club’s Technical Director.
The main role Harrison will play is surrounding football administration. Harrison won’t have much of an impact on footballing matters such as signings, but will instead take care of other roles such as making sure that the club’s administration matters such as squad lists are all in order.

He also plays an incredibly important role in relation to player support, as well as directing matters related to team travel, with Manchester United being a club that travels often, both nationally and internationally. This goes not just for the men’s team, but also the women’s and academy teams, too.

As mentioned in the above statement, Harrison joined the club from Everton, where he operated in the same role – He will work under John Murtough and with Darren Fletcher.

so essentially nothing In changing in the job for boys club . fletcher is still at the top of the tree.

hope that helps xxx

No, he oversees the youth side. Not a nothing job at all, just a nothing poster, making a nothing point with his no nowt knowledge.

Originally Posted by dunk

No, he oversees the youth side. Not a nothing job at all, just a nothing poster..

I dont even know what you are saying.

I explained to you why Darren fletcher should not be any near this job he is occupying.

Fletcher was appointed as technical director last March alongside John Murtough who became the club’s first football director. The pair are heavily involved with club recruitment and both were involved in the interview process which brought Rangnick to the club

Probably the key part of the role is taking a holistic view of the path for players from our academy to our first team. That pipeline of academy talent is a massive part of who we are as a club..

You know nothing about Fletcher, his knowledge, capabilities, role or responsibilities. You know nothing. That’s what I’m saying.

If you were to actually look at it, based on that paragraph and what has occurred since his appointment, you would say the things he’s involved in have all improved markedly.

Well, you wouldn’t, because you’re determined that nothing good is happening at United or will happen at United until the current manager etc. are jettisoned and will not entertain anything beyond that.