United Forum
Go Back   United Forum > Manchester United > Football
Closed Thread
 
Unread 08-05-2019, 07:42 PM
dunk
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AK14
Each boards boundaries to work within are different, It’s why I think Klopp would have failed here. He wouldn’t have put up with a CEO signing players for their marketability for starters.

Let’s not forget Klopp turned us down...

He knew himself it wouldn’t have worked for him here.
Was happy at Dortmund and didn’t want any of the post-Fergie circus, I reckon.

Fergie worked successfully with Edwards and the PLC, and the Glazers. Working with the Glazers and Woodward isn’t £#%&!ing impossible.
 
Unread 08-05-2019, 07:45 PM
AK14
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dunk
Was happy at Dortmund and didn’t want any of the post-Fergie circus, I reckon.

Fergie worked successfully with Edwards and the PLC, and the Glazers. Working with the Glazers and Woodward isn’t £#%&!ing impossible.


Enjoy your night Jürgen.
 
Unread 08-05-2019, 07:47 PM
dunk
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AK14


Enjoy your night Jürgen.
You’re proper dim when you want to be
 
Unread 09-05-2019, 10:42 AM
Whip Hubley
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dunk

Fergie worked successfully with Edwards and the PLC, and the Glazers. Working with the Glazers and Woodward isn’t £#%&!ing impossible.

Depends if your definition of successful is signing obertan, owen and valencia to replace Ronaldo tbf.

Fergie was successful in spite of those @#%&!s, not because of. His own 'philosophy' became more and more negative during his final few seasons precisely because we wouldn't splash out on a hazard, or an aguero or whoever to keep up with the rest. He got a tune out of a pretty much out of contract RVP which was his swansong.
 
Unread 09-05-2019, 10:48 AM
Cream
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whip Hubley

Fergie was successful in spite of those @#%&!s, not because of. His own 'philosophy' became more and more negative during his final few seasons precisely because we wouldn't splash out on a hazard, or an aguero or whoever to keep up with the rest.
A Sessions.
 
Unread 09-05-2019, 11:06 AM
utd99
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AK14


Pal...

Seriously.

If Mourinho has signed a player like Steven £#%&!ing Caulker and proceeded to play him as a striker you’d still be banging on about it to this day.

Powell was a midfielder/forward already at the club and was a kid who was given a chance.

Point is Klopp made strange decisions and bought shite, but was given time to put things right. He wouldn’t have had the same trust or time from the board here.
See, this is the problem. There’s obviously a point in here somewhere, but in order to make it you’re having to do a massive rubiks cube with the facts. Caulker was a loan, not a buy. It was a stop gap and it didn’t work. The guy played less than 5 games for them, ever. If that’s what you’re using as evidence of Klopp’s £#%&! ups in the market then it must feel a bit fragile even for you.

What’s a ‘significant’ transfer these days; anything 15m quid and above? Fair? These are Klopp’s:
Mane
Wijnaldum
Van Dijk
Salah
Oxlade Camberlain
Allison
Keita
Fabinho. That’s it. That’s all of them. To which he threw in a few lower level buys like Robertson and Shakquiri. He was also able to ship out pretty much all the dross from the previous regimes; Benteke, Balotelli, Toure etc.

You say 8th, but that was less than a season after he took over Rodgers shit show. From there, they’ve been making nothing but slow gradual progress, points wise and what our eyes tell us.

This is the truth; we hate it; it’s what we should be doing; and banging on about Steven £#%&!ing Caulker’s three games is just a smoke and mirrors act.
 
Unread 09-05-2019, 11:19 AM
AK14
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by utd99
See, this is the problem. There’s obviously a point in here somewhere, but in order to make it you’re having to do a massive rubiks cube with the facts. Caulker was a loan, not a buy. It was a stop gap and it didn’t work. The guy played less than 5 games for them, ever. If that’s what you’re using as evidence of Klopp’s £#%&! ups in the market then it must feel a bit fragile even for you.

What’s a ‘significant’ transfer these days; anything 15m quid and above? Fair? These are Klopp’s:
Mane
Wijnaldum
Van Dijk
Salah
Oxlade Camberlain
Allison
Keita
Fabinho. That’s it. That’s all of them. To which he threw in a few lower level buys like Robertson and Shakquiri. He was also able to ship out pretty much all the dross from the previous regimes; Benteke, Balotelli, Toure etc.

You say 8th, but that was less than a season after he took over Rodgers shit show. From there, they’ve been making nothing but slow gradual progress, points wise and what our eyes tell us.

This is the truth; we hate it; it’s what we should be doing; and banging on about Steven £#%&!ing Caulker’s three games is just a smoke and mirrors act.
He signed players like Karius, Klaven, Guric but their board kept faith with him and allowed him to sign replacements. You said Klopp didn’t sign players then continue to use the previous managers players over his while then demanding to sign replacements for his initial signings...

Fact is he did.

The point about Caulker is that even super star Jürgen Klopp has made strange decisions, but Liverpool’s board kept faith. Our board wouldn’t have kept faith with him. They wouldn’t have allowed him the time to get it right

I’m not disputing we shouldn’t do what they do. I’m saying as long as we have the current people running the club that we won’t do it.

Now that doesn’t mean outer managers haven’t made mistakes, of course they have.

You also say he cleared the deck of deadwood or poisonous attitudes, yet here we are with the likes of Jones, Young, Shaw, Martial, Rojo etc all given new contracts over the last 12-18 months. Our managers are not allowed to move these players because it’s cheaper for the board to keep these on than sign replacements along with signings players that obviously needed to get us to the next level.
 
Unread 09-05-2019, 11:26 AM
windy waffles
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AK14
He signed players like Karius, Klaven, Guric but their board kept faith with him and allowed him to sign replacements. You said Klopp didn’t sign players then continue to use the previous managers players over his while then demanding to sign replacements for his initial signings...

Fact is he did.

The point about Caulker is that even super star Jürgen Klopp has made strange decisions, but Liverpool’s board kept faith. Our board wouldn’t have kept faith with him. They wouldn’t have allowed him the time to get it right

I’m not disputing we shouldn’t do what they do. I’m saying as long as we have the current people running the club that we won’t do it.

Now that doesn’t mean outer managers haven’t made mistakes, of course they have.

You also say he cleared the deck of deadwood or poisonous attitudes, yet here we are with the likes of Jones, Young, Shaw, Martial, Rojo etc all given new contracts over the last 12-18 months. Our managers are not allowed to move these players because it’s cheaper for the board to keep these on than sign replacements along with signings players that obviously needed to get us to the next level.

Not defending him by any means but in his three full seasons:

2016/2017 - 4th in the league (4 places above the previous year)
2017/2018 - 4th again and reached a CL final
2018/2019 - probably runner up in the league but will win the CL.

Why would we not have kept faith with him? That's a pretty good record and has shown progress year on year along with the way in which they play football. Also got to a UEFA cup final too in his first season (in which he joined mid season) in which they finished 8th.
 
Unread 09-05-2019, 11:34 AM
AK14
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by windy waffles
Not defending him by any means but in his three full seasons:

2016/2017 - 4th in the league (4 places above the previous year)
2017/2018 - 4th again and reached a CL final
2018/2019 - probably runner up in the league but will win the CL.

Why would we not have kept faith with him? That's a pretty good record and has shown progress year on year along with the way in which they play football. Also got to a UEFA cup final too in his first season (in which he joined mid season) in which they finished 8th.
That progress is with a board that backed him, that has bought the right players for his system. Allowed him to rectify poor initial signings. Allowed him to sell the dross.

That wouldn’t have happened here imo. Woodward would tell him to get the best out of Rojo. Tell him he can’t sign another GK because he’s already had Karius. Signed players for their marketability over players that would fit Klopp system.

Are we honestly saying that IF Klopp had signed for us we’d be in a similar situation as the scousers now? He’s a good manager obviously, but just like any manager he needs the support and structure in place to succeed. We haven’t got that here IMO.
 
Unread 09-05-2019, 11:43 AM
utd99
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AK14
He signed players like Karius, Klaven, Guric but their board kept faith with him and allowed him to sign replacements. You said Klopp didn’t sign players then continue to use the previous managers players over his while then demanding to sign replacements for his initial signings...

Fact is he did.
For a grand total of 15m quid. These are throw away purchases; they either work or they don’t, but in the event you’ve lost little. Hardly the same as spending 90m quid on a superstar and deciding you don’t like him after all. If Pogba, Lukaku, Fred had worked out well, would we be sitting here debating Lee Grant?

Quote:
The point about Caulker is that even super star Jürgen Klopp has made strange decisions, but Liverpool’s board kept faith. Our board wouldn’t have kept faith with him. They wouldn’t have allowed him the time to get it right
Liverpool’s board kept faith because the team was improving and the major investments worked well by and large. Should they have called an emergency directors meeting over Klopp’s use of Steven Caulker?

Quote:
You also say he cleared the deck of deadwood or poisonous attitudes, yet here we are with the likes of Jones, Young, Shaw, Martial, Rojo etc all given new contracts over the last 12-18 months. Our managers are not allowed to move these players because it’s cheaper for the board to keep these on than sign replacements along with signings players that obviously needed to get us to the next level.
Now we’re getting into the realms of what none of us can possibly know. Of course on the surface we can say that Jones is shit and why are we re-upping his deal, but you can’t possibly know what van Gaal or Mourinho discussed with Woodward. Possibly they saw them as reliable back ups and wanted them kept. For managers that wanted Young out and we’re flatly refused by the board, they certainly played the @#%&! an awful lot.
 
Unread 09-05-2019, 11:52 AM
AK14
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by utd99
For a grand total of 15m quid. These are throw away purchases; they either work or they don’t, but in the event you’ve lost little. Hardly the same as spending 90m quid on a superstar and deciding you don’t like him after all. If Pogba, Lukaku, Fred had worked out well, would we be sitting here debating Lee Grant?



Liverpool’s board kept faith because the team was improving and the major investments worked well by and large. Should they have called an emergency directors meeting over Klopp’s use to Steven Caulker?



Now we’re getting into the realms of what none of us can possibly know. Of course on the surface we can say that Jones is shit and why are we re-upping his deal, but you can’t possibly know what van Gaal or Mourinho discussed with Woodward. Possibly they saw them as reliable back ups and wanted them kept. For managers that wanted Young out and we’re flatly refused by the board, they certainly played the @#%&! an awful lot.
You said Klopp didn’t sign players then continued to pick the previous managers players and then demand he be allowed to replace his initial signings. He did, facts are there for every one to see and that’s exactly what he did.

Whether it was 5m or 50m, he bought players for his first team who turned out to be duds and was allowed to replace them.

It’s in no way a defence of Mourinho or Van Gaal time here. It’s stating a fact that he did do what you said he didn’t. And it was obviously the right decision to allow him to have done it. I have my doubts he’d have been given the same trust with our board.

As much as I absolutely love discussing how great Klopp and Liverpool are at the moment pal, I think I’ll leave it there.
 
Unread 09-05-2019, 12:01 PM
utd99
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AK14
He signed players like Karius, Klaven, Guric but their board kept faith with him and allowed him to sign replacements. You said Klopp didn’t sign players then continue to use the previous managers players over his while then demanding to sign replacements for his initial signings...

Fact is he did.

The point about Caulker is that even super star Jürgen Klopp has made strange decisions, but Liverpool’s board kept faith. Our board wouldn’t have kept faith with him. They wouldn’t have allowed him the time to get it right

I’m not disputing we shouldn’t do what they do. I’m saying as long as we have the current people running the club that we won’t do it.

Now that doesn’t mean outer managers haven’t made mistakes, of course they have.

You also say he cleared the deck of deadwood or poisonous attitudes, yet here we are with the likes of Jones, Young, Shaw, Martial, Rojo etc all given new contracts over the last 12-18 months. Our managers are not allowed to move these players because it’s cheaper for the board to keep these on than sign replacements along with signings players that obviously needed to get us to the next level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AK14
You said Klopp didn’t sign players then continued to pick the previous managers players and then demand he be allowed to replace his initial signings. He did, facts are there for every one to see and that’s exactly what he did.

Whether it was 5m or 50m, he bought players for his first team who turned out to be duds and was allowed to replace them.

It’s in no way a defence of Mourinho or Van Gaal time here. It’s stating a fact that he did do what you said he didn’t. And it was obviously the right decision to allow him to have done it. I have my doubts he’d have been given the same trust with our board.

As much as I absolutely love discussing how great Klopp and Liverpool are at the moment pal, I think I’ll leave it there.
There’s no manager in history who hasn’t used at least some of the previous manager’s players. Just like there’s no squad in history who had 22 un-useable players, no matter how bad there were when he took over. I’m not really sure what we’re discussing.

You’re giving the game a way a bit by saying things like “superstar Klopp”, when really all we should be talking about is good decisions versus bad decisions; they type that leave one team 30 points behind another. It’s got nothing to do with being a fan-boy, or bigging anyone up.
 
Unread 09-05-2019, 12:03 PM
andyroo
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by utd99
There’s no manager in history who hasn’t used at least some of the previous manager’s players. Just like there’s no squad in history who had 22 un-useable players, no matter how bad there were when he took over. I’m not really sure what we’re discussing.

You’re giving the game a way a bit by saying things like “superstar Klopp”, when really all we should be talking about is good decisions versus bad decisions; they type that leave one team 30 points behind another. It’s got nothing to do with being a fan-boy, or bigging anyone up.
There is now
 
Unread 09-05-2019, 12:05 PM
utd99
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by andyroo
There is now
‘Point.
 
Unread 09-05-2019, 12:05 PM
AK14
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by utd99
There’s no manager in history who hasn’t used at least some of the previous manager’s players. Just like there’s no squad in history who had 22 un-useable players, no matter how bad there were when he took over. I’m not really sure what we’re discussing.

You’re giving the game a way a bit by saying things like “superstar Klopp”, when really all we should be talking about is good decisions versus bad decisions; they type that leave one team 30 points behind another. It’s got nothing to do with being a fan-boy, or bigging anyone up.
There really is no game to begin with.

You said this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by utd99
You don’t know that. I haven’t seen Klopp buy 11 players, stick them all on the bench while continuing with Brendon Rodgers players.
You were wrong. Facts prove that you were wrong.

Move on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andyroo
There is now
Ain’t that the truth.
 
Unread 09-05-2019, 12:23 PM
guerreiro
 
Default

What the £#%&!s happening in this thread?

Scan read it and it’s a full blown debate on wether Klopp has done well? Yes he has, it’s never looked like he wasn’t improving their team.

Now, back to Martial. If there’s a buyer and we can get a replacement with a good chance sell him now, if not give him another year.
 
Unread 09-05-2019, 01:53 PM
Surfers do Charlie
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by guerreiro
What the £#%&!s happening in this thread?

Scan read it and it’s a full blown debate on wether Klopp has done well? Yes he has, it’s never looked like he wasn’t improving their team.

Now, back to Martial. If there’s a buyer and we can get a replacement with a good chance sell him now, if not give him another year.
I wouldn't sell Martial.

He seems to be one of the few players we have who has undeniable ability, but is just not producing for some reason. I'd also include Bailly and Fred in that. Maybe Rashford as well.

If we replace the truly shit players like Lukaku and Sanchez, and the worn out ones like Young and Matic, and replace them with players with a mentality that the manager and DoF can implement, then I think Martial and co. could produce what they're capable of more consistently.
 
Unread 09-05-2019, 01:57 PM
S/Side.Red
 
Default

Liverpool have a structure above Klopp that means he isn’t solely responsible for transfers. They buy players as a club because they all understand what they’re looking for. They know their manager and they know the style of play.

Apparently Klopp wasn’t sold on Salah. He wanted someone else from Germany. It really helps when other people at the club know football too.
 
Unread 09-05-2019, 02:02 PM
AK14
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by S/Side.Red
Liverpool have a structure above Klopp that means he isn’t solely responsible for transfers. They buy players as a club because they all understand what they’re looking for. They know their manager and they know the style of play.

Apparently Klopp wasn’t sold on Salah. He wanted someone else from Germany. It really helps when other people at the club know football too.
Yep.

It wouldn’t have worked out for him here, Just like it won’t work out for Ole unless there’s a drastic change in how we operate.

Anyway, apparently Martial missed training today?
 
Unread 09-05-2019, 03:30 PM
utd99
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AK14
Yep.

It wouldn’t have worked out for him here, Just like it won’t work out for Ole unless there’s a drastic change in how we operate.

Anyway, apparently Martial missed training today?
How could they tell?
Closed Thread
Thread Tools
Similar Threads for: Martial
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Where is martial? puressence Football 34 05-08-2021 07:03 PM
Martial TheFatGoth Football 71 27-06-2017 12:30 AM
Martial - is there any hope for the lad? TheFatGoth Football 70 21-09-2016 09:43 AM
Martial to PSG TheFatGoth Football 38 16-05-2016 11:42 PM
Martial TheFatGoth Football 22 08-12-2015 07:57 PM
All times are GMT. The time now is 12:44 PM.
Copyright ©2006 - 2024 utdforum.com. This site is in no way affiliated to Manchester United Football Club.