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Unread 06-08-2020, 02:47 PM
Coracao
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redhegemony
Hang on you said how it IS not how it COULD BE in the future. And you last point makes my argument we are the biggest club in the PL but it doesn't help us because our squad is thin. Yet we've spent millions.

It's not clear that all your maybes will happen. We have a £50m plus midfielder on the bench but that doesn't help us much.

So actually it's not true that 5 subs will automatically help 'bigger' clubs.
It is pointless discussing any topic with you whatsoever. Cheerio.
 
Unread 06-08-2020, 02:48 PM
redhegemony
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coracao
It is pointless discussing any topic with you whatsoever. Cheerio.
 
Unread 06-08-2020, 02:56 PM
NedKelly
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redhegemony
Hang on you said how it IS not how it COULD BE in the future. And you last point makes my argument we are the biggest club in the PL but it doesn't help us because our squad is thin. Yet we've spent millions.

It's not clear that all your maybes will happen. We have a £50m plus midfielder on the bench but that doesn't help us much.

So actually it's not true that 5 subs will automatically help 'bigger' clubs.
That was the point. It’s not about the size of the club so much as the quality of player.
 
Unread 06-08-2020, 02:58 PM
utd99
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redhegemony
Mate, it’s beyond question that it theoretically helps the bigger, richer teams. Just because our bench is currently crap doesn’t change that. Your argument is like saying we should be able to field 12 players so long as the extra man is Lingard or Pereira.

Our first 11 may be decent and our second string rubbish atm, but that will change the longer the re-build goes on; at that point we will have a material advantage - just like City have now - and the rule will still be in place.
 
Unread 06-08-2020, 03:06 PM
redhegemony
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by utd99
Mate, it’s beyond question that it theoretically helps the bigger, richer teams. Just because our bench is currently crap doesn’t change that. Your argument is like saying we should be able to field 12 players so long as the extra man is Lingard or Pereira.

Our first 11 may be decent and our second string rubbish atm, but that will change the longer the re-build goes on; at that point we will have a material advantage - just like City have now - and the rule will still be in place.
Theory and practice don't always match. What did Jose spend 370m and the squad is terribly unbalanced. Take City out of the equation and we know what's happening there and none of the other big clubs have fantastic squads which explains why clubs like Wolves and Sheffield United have done so well.

It's not that easy unless the wages are ridiculous to pay top class players to sit on the bench for any length of time and if you have superstars a huge chunk of the wage bill goes on them.

It's not as straightforward as people make it.
 
Unread 06-08-2020, 03:13 PM
pedr0
 
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5 subs benefit clubs with more homogeneous talent across their squad, i.e. smallest difference between starter and substitute. Irrelevant whether they are a "small" or "big" club.

It's a good thing for us it's been binned
 
Unread 06-08-2020, 03:17 PM
utd99
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redhegemony
Theory and practice don't always match. What did Jose spend 370m and the squad is terribly unbalanced. Take City out of the equation and we know what's happening there and none of the other big clubs have fantastic squads which explains why clubs like Wolves and Sheffield United have done so well.

It's not that easy unless the wages are ridiculous to pay top class players to sit on the bench for any length of time and if you have superstars a huge chunk of the wage bill goes on them.

It's not as straightforward as people make it.
What happened to Wolves and Sheffield United when the business end of the season came around?
 
Unread 06-08-2020, 03:24 PM
windy waffles
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redhegemony
You've just contradicted yourself you plum it's not the number from 3-5 that matters per se but the quality of the players. We kept playing the same XI because the rest weren't that good so how does bringing on 2 extra crap players of West Brom standard help



Yes please. we're a big club and came third how has it helped us more than any smaller club?

Why has Maguire played every game?
I've not contradicted myself - i said it gives bigger clubs more of an advantage due to the quality of the squads. Our squad isn't as in depth as others but it's far better than that of a lower league club. That's undeniable.

Why are you trying to defend the indefensible?
 
Unread 06-08-2020, 03:36 PM
redhegemony
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by utd99
What happened to Wolves and Sheffield United when the business end of the season came around?
Leicester (small club) finished well ahead of Arsenal and Tottenham (big clubs). Wolves finished in front of Arsenal and seven points between Spurs in 6th and Southhampton in 11th.

I think it was someone at Brentford who worked out a correlation between wage bill and position in table. Extra subs may not help those with access to a bigger wage bill if it's spread very unequally. Your 4th and 5th sub maybe relatively low earners.

United are a good example, despite spending millions, the bench isn't full of top class internationals (from major nations) but a mix. The odd one out is Romero.
 
Unread 06-08-2020, 03:52 PM
Long tongue phooey
 
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I thought the water breaks were just because they played into the beginning of summer so it was much warmer than normal?
 
Unread 06-08-2020, 04:00 PM
redhegemony
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windy waffles
I've not contradicted myself - i said it gives bigger clubs more of an advantage due to the quality of the squads. Our squad isn't as in depth as others but it's far better than that of a lower league club. That's undeniable.

Why are you trying to defend the indefensible?
As you say we don't benefit and we are a big club so ipso facto it doesn't automatically benefit bigger clubs.

It's all about the relative quality of players as Pedr0 has pointed out.
 
Unread 06-08-2020, 06:02 PM
red in cumbria
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Long tongue phooey
I thought the water breaks were just because they played into the beginning of summer so it was much warmer than normal?
I think it was actually stated as much.
 
Unread 06-08-2020, 06:17 PM
Coracao
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pedr0
5 subs benefit clubs with more homogeneous talent across their squad, i.e. smallest difference between starter and substitute. Irrelevant whether they are a "small" or "big" club.

It's a good thing for us it's been binned
That might be the case if it is a close game. However, the likes of Liverpool and City often find themselves winning handily on a weekly basis. If you're 3 or 4 up, the drop off in quality isn't that important. It potentially provides opportunities to manage fatigue over a season far easier if you can change half of your players.

I dont think there is any logical argument for having 5 subs from a competitive standpoint.
 
Unread 06-08-2020, 07:14 PM
utd99
 
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The average 16th man at top clubs is going to be a hell of a lot better than the average 16th man at the smaller clubs. That’s really all we need to know; and let’s face it, it benefits us, so the mere fact we’re admitting it rather than arguing for it like the Bitters would proves it’s validity.
 
Unread 10-08-2020, 01:19 PM
Swagger
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by utd99
Mate, it’s beyond question that it theoretically
Beyond question - 1 : completely certain or definite His genius is beyond question. 2 : in a way that is completely certain : without any doubt The new evidence establishes his innocence beyond (all) question.

Theoretically - 1 : according to an ideal or assumed set of facts or principles : in theory. 2 : in a theoretical way.

Which one is it mate?
 
Unread 10-08-2020, 04:26 PM
utd99
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swagger
Beyond question - 1 : completely certain or definite His genius is beyond question. 2 : in a way that is completely certain : without any doubt The new evidence establishes his innocence beyond (all) question.

Theoretically - 1 : according to an ideal or assumed set of facts or principles : in theory. 2 : in a theoretical way.

Which one is it mate?
Is Einstein’s theory of General Relativity a theory or a fact? Do we use the assumption that it’s correct to calculate every bit of technology from smart phones to Space shuttles, while still acknowledging it’s not an actual fact? My theory is that you exactly what the point was, you were just trying to be a clever pedant and missed the bull-eye by a smidge.
 
Unread 10-08-2020, 09:58 PM
Swagger
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by utd99
Is Einstein’s theory of General Relativity a theory or a fact? Do we use the assumption that it’s correct to calculate every bit of technology from smart phones to Space shuttles, while still acknowledging it’s not an actual fact? My theory is that you exactly what the point was, you were just trying to be a clever pedant and missed the bull-eye by a smidge.
You don't know then.
 
Unread 10-08-2020, 10:09 PM
NedKelly
 
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Utd99 placing himself up there with Einstein. It’s a big call. Not sure I agree.
 
Unread 11-08-2020, 12:03 AM
utd99
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NedKelly
Utd99 placing himself up there with Einstein. It’s a big call. Not sure I agree.
 
Unread 11-08-2020, 02:49 AM
armchair
 
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This site according to jack.
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