Refinancing the debt

Originally Posted by RedMenace

They probably have been buying up some in the secondary market, no way of knowing for sure. United have been buying them back in dribs and drabs I think they've bought over £100m worth even aside from the flotation proceeds. What a great use of the club's money :shakehead:

It's a good use of the club's money if we're debt free in four years.

Originally Posted by 92ToBury

It's a good use of the club's money if we're debt free in four years.

It just goes back to why we're in debt in the first place. In the particular circumstances we're in now I suppose it's prudent all right.

Originally Posted by RedMenace

Rothschilds appear to be quite tight with the Glazers.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/footbal...cut-debt-costs

the executive quoted there helped push their takeover through along with this guy who's now on the board

http://ir.manutd.com/phoenix.zhtml?c...vBio&ID=223564

If the wider public knew United's tax details we'd be hated on a whole new level along with starbucks, google and apple ... it's almost as if we're basically a money-laundering haven fronted by old school cartoon scrooges. I can't wait for someone to finally uncover the details of what the whole horrible pile of @#%&!s involved have put in place ...

Originally Posted by Denis Irwell

we have had hundreds of millions of the club's money taken away and the plasticos have had hundreds of millions of somebody else's money gifted to them.

I can see the similarity though: both clubs use a bank

come on throbbers - talk sense.

yeah you're right about City, but as far as United goes, most of the money wasn't coming through United before, but now with about 100 sponsors around the "global economy" it is. ffs we're not far off being a bankers' plaything ... in fact forget that, we are a bankers' plaything

They've made a pile of money out of us with very little risk to themselves.

Since the takeover we've have moderate to good success

Revenue has increased significantly so that there is the chance, when the debt is finally gone, that we could compete with the oil funded clubs.

Whatever happens, we as fans can do £#%&! all about it so it's no point getting het up over it.

Originally Posted by Albert Tatlock

They've made a pile of money out of us with very little risk to themselves.

Since the takeover we've have moderate to good success

Revenue has increased significantly so that there is the chance, when the debt is finally gone, that we could compete with the oil funded clubs.

Whatever happens, we as fans can do £#%&! all about it so it's no point getting het up over it.

Correct. We had our chance in 2004/5 but there were too many with their head in the sand that didn't chuck their tenner into the SU pot.

Originally Posted by Albert Tatlock

They've made a pile of money out of us with very little risk to themselves.

Since the takeover we've have moderate to good success

Revenue has increased significantly so that there is the chance, when the debt is finally gone, that we could compete with the oil funded clubs.

Whatever happens, we as fans can do £#%&! all about it so it's no point getting het up over it.

moderate to good? it's the most successful period in our entire history.

the debt doesn't need to be cleared for United to compete with the oil funded clubs either. the TV money this year is ridiculously high and only going to get bigger for the foreseeable. United are slaves to their sponsors, to TV and to the finance industry, and on the face of it only one of those 3 are slaves to us in return. it just so happens that those slaves are what has driven the whole thing from the start and will continue to do so.

Originally Posted by Fountz

pretty spot on.

I loathe them.

Looks like the @#%&!s are going to get away with it, though. Incredible, really :shakehead:

Originally Posted by red in cumbria

Looks like the @#%&!s are going to get away with it, though. Incredible, really :shakehead:

it was never ever in doubt that they would imo - the finance industry couldn't have had more accommodating frontmen

the divisive protests were easily foreseeable as well; divide and rule worked liked a charm for them - they barely had to do anything at all ffs

guess we'll never know how much hostility could've been generated inside Old Trafford now, but the Milan home game is a pretty good indicator of what could have been

I'm just glad I haven't given the @#%&!s even one penny.

Originally Posted by Albert Tatlock

They've made a pile of money out of us with very little risk to themselves.

Since the takeover we've have moderate to good success

Revenue has increased significantly so that there is the chance, when the debt is finally gone, that we could compete with the oil funded clubs.

Whatever happens, we as fans can do £#%&! all about it so it's no point getting het up over it.

Exactly. Like everyone, or nearly everyone, I was riled in 2005 and probably til about 2007 when it was very obvious that there weren't enough fans who wanted to do something about it. No point in moaning about it now certainly. Football as we know it won't be around in 30 years anyway.

Originally Posted by VodkaAndCoke

I'm just glad I haven't given the @#%&!s even one penny.

That's great and I admire the strength of your convictions but all that's doing now is denying you any joy you might get from going to watch the team play? It's certainly making no difference whatsoever to if we are or aren't owned by the glazers. That ship sailed about 6 years ago.

Originally Posted by Albert Tatlock

They've made a pile of money out of us with very little risk to themselves.

Since the takeover we've have moderate to good success

Revenue has increased significantly so that there is the chance, when the debt is finally gone, that we could compete with the oil funded clubs.

Whatever happens, we as fans can do £#%&! all about it so it's no point getting het up over it.

Do you seriously think that if and when we become debt free, the @#%&!s aren't still going to find ways of taking £30 to £40 million a year for themselves ?

Originally Posted by Mr Kaboom

Do you seriously think that if and when we become debt free, the @#%&!s aren't still going to find ways of taking £30 to £40 million a year for themselves ?

When we are debt free they will be entitled to take dividends. The plc took a fair chunk out of a far smaller pot

Originally Posted by Mr Kaboom

Do you seriously think that if and when we become debt free, the @#%&!s aren't still going to find ways of taking £30 to £40 million a year for themselves ?

of course they're going to take it, but for all the bad they do they realise that killing the golden goose isn't going to be to their benefit, thus some of that money is going to be invested in the team... but money isn't the be all and end all. Look at the investment in city and Real and what have they achieved lately ?

One last thing, if the arabs walk away, city are dead, point ! If the glazers walk away, we keep going. Who's in the better position ?

ftr, I am not a glazer apologist, just a realist. Things could be a lot worse, thankfully they're not.

Originally Posted by Albert Tatlock

of course they're going to take it, but for all the bad they do they realise that killing the golden goose isn't going to be to their benefit, thus some of that money is going to be invested in the team... but money isn't the be all and end all. Look at the investment in city and Real and what have they achieved lately ?

One last thing, if the arabs walk away, city are dead, point ! If the glazers walk away, we keep going. Who's in the better position ?

ftr, I am not a glazer apologist, just a realist. Things could be a lot worse, thankfully they're not.

things could have gone a lot worse; thankfully, they didn't.

no thanks to them, though.

Originally Posted by jem

things could have gone a lot worse; thankfully, they didn't.

no thanks to them, though.

who should take the credit then, jem?

because if it's not them then it must be the finance industry they're fronting for. and if it's not them either then it must be Ferguson and Gill.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

who should take the credit then, jem?

because if it's not them then it must be the finance industry they're fronting for. and if it's not them either then it must be Ferguson and Gill.

#missingthepointasusual

they put the club at risk by burdening it with debt. we should hardly be grateful the worst was not realised.

yes, they brought in some extra revenues from sponsors, etc (nothing they couldn't have achieved as major shareholders without a takeover or without a leveraged takeover), but also from raising ticket prices.

meanwhile, we did not buy a midfield and did not compete in the transfer market. van persie wanted to come to united.

they are greedy @#%&!s who risked nothing themselves and are getting rich from other people's money.

it's match-going reds to whom you should be grateful. or in whom you should be very disappointed. one or the other.

Originally Posted by jem

#missingthepointasusual

they put the club at risk by burdening it with debt. we should hardly be grateful the worst was not realised.

yes, they brought in some extra revenues from sponsors, etc (nothing they couldn't have achieved as major shareholders without a takeover or without a leveraged takeover), but also from raising ticket prices.

meanwhile, we did not buy a midfield and did not compete in the transfer market. van persie wanted to come to united.

they are greedy @#%&!s who risked nothing themselves and are getting rich from other people's money.

it's match-going reds to whom you should be grateful. or in whom you should be very disappointed. one or the other.

match-going reds are what makes the club what it is


I'm not sure what the point is of ridiculing the glazers for not interfering, either

and the point about the extra revenues they've brought in is pure revisionism: none of the critics of the takeover even remotely envisaged the levels they've tapped into the global money-go-round, let alone accounted for it in their forecasts. and similarly, the growth of TV revenues and other media coverage was not accounted for either ... personally, I didn't even realise just how little revenue was [separately] received from overseas rights until the last but one contract was negotiated, and it's pretty clear there's still a hell of a lot of mileage in that expansion, particularly as far as all the sponsorship and partnership %@#$&!s they're milking from it as well.




edit: I'm not missing your point either, I've been reading it for about 7 years ffs. I get your point, I just don't agree with it.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

match-going reds are what makes the club what it is


I'm not sure what the point is of ridiculing the glazers for not interfering, either

and the point about the extra revenues they've brought in is pure revisionism: none of the critics of the takeover even remotely envisaged the levels they've tapped into the global money-go-round, let alone accounted for it in their forecasts. and similarly, the growth of TV revenues and other media coverage was not accounted for either ... personally, I didn't even realise just how little revenue was [separately] received from overseas rights until the last but one contract was negotiated, and it's pretty clear there's still a hell of a lot of mileage in that expansion, particularly as far as all the sponsorship and partnership %@#$&!s they're milking from it as well.




edit: I'm not missing your point either, I've been reading it for about 7 years ffs. I get your point, I just don't agree with it.

since you are still missing the point, I am just going to assume you are stupid.

as I have for the last 7 years.


that said, the idea that lumbering the club with debt is "not interfering" did raise a wry smile.

Originally Posted by jem

since you are still missing the point, I am just going to assume you are stupid.

as I have for the last 7 years.


that said, the idea that lumbering the club with debt is "not interfering" did raise a wry smile.

at the end of the day you'll look back at the past 8 years and remember how pissed off you were

and I'll look back on it and remember the days I had, the great players I watched, the fantastic matches I saw and overall how brilliant it was watching United


You're as entitled as you are determined to think that makes me and the vast majority of match-going Reds stupid. But you'll still be bitter, and I won't.


You can't answer the point about the forecasts and the revisionism on the commercial revenues either, which is why you have "anyone could've done that" on repeat. Although I see you've adjusted it to read that they could've achieved that just by sitting on the board now.