Ole in/out poll.

Originally Posted by Soviet

Try reading it rather than looking at it, and you might make more sense of it.

I read them all but you haven’t actually made one point. Could you summarize?

Originally Posted by believe

I read them all but you haven’t actually made one point. Could you summarize?

Sure

- The board are c***s
- Unlike you, I am not stabbing Ole in the back considering he's walked into 6 years of incompetence
- Our senior players are shit, which are not helping the youth out
- There is a line however, because we're in free-fall and the football is dog shit, Ole and his coaching staff need to get it together, to get time

I made several points, hence the summary provided

Originally Posted by Soviet

A long story short - We're in the shit.

To answer the question, Ole IN, however painful this season is, give him the next summer transfer window, next season, and see where we're at. Unless we get relegated this season . Allegri rumours are starting to tempt me though (His style of football cant be that bad surely).

To make myself feel better, here is my two pence worth.

The ownership and rest of the board are despicable people, great business men, clueless about football. Joel Glazer and Ed Woodward in particular have a lot to answer for. It says a lot about how our fan base is, and football in general, that these two haven't been forcefully, by any means, removed from the club, because they deserve it. We need more head cases with nothing to lose. They are two pencil necks that thought they'd dabble at football, that have taken footballing decisions out of managers hands, failed to successfully reform and improve our structure, abandoned any remnants of DNA we had left, and failed to develop any purposeful and fruitful working relationships with anybody in football. They've had, no strategy, poor strategy, marketing first strategy. How Fergie managed to keep this shit together during the tail end of his reign is even more remarkable. The board have essentially ran us into the ground for 6 years +.

Because of who Ole is, and because this club has been rotting from its head, I am cutting him more slack than I would anybody else. The foundation for any manager to succeed has not been there, and the amounts of money spent masks this. I cannot simply ignore this because it is quite clear by now that any manager we bring in will suffer the same fate whether they make a better fight of it or not.
I am not about to get the knives out for Ole, when the players and board disgust me as much as they do. Ole is going to be the last one that gets it in the neck from me. The club has been an absolute £#%&!ing mess for a long time now, expecting Ole, or anybody else at this point, to put this right overnight, or in one transfer window, is fantasy for a variety of reasons.

However, Ole does need to be held accountable and there are signs that concern me. The fan base cannot be faulted, they've been outstanding whilst the club has been brought to its knees, perhaps too good, perhaps not volatile enough. The message at the moment is patience and time, but whilst I can empathize with Ole due to the mess he came into, at some point he's got to get real. He wants time and patience, but there are no signs of improvement, nothing to get behind, we play awful football, we're in free-fall. There has to be a point of no return, a point that isn't acceptable, and that point for us, as a support and club, is disturbingly low now. He wants us all to be patient whilst we find out if any of these players can cut it ? And expects that to wash ?.

His approach has been the right one, I fully support it. Youth, British core, added quality, the right characters. It is a change that had to happen, because Woodward was digging a bigger whole every year. But the implementation has been lacking. For instance, consider our 'senior' players, De Gea, Mata, Matic, Rojo, Smalling, Jones, Young, Pogba, Fred ? Lindelof ?.... did Ole genuinely think any of these we're going to get us over the line, drag this side forward, positively impact the youth, because if he did he was delusional. The only two you can defend is De Gea and Pogba. Pogba wants to leave, and De Gea isn't a natural leader. Wit that bunch of w****rs for senior players and a load of youth, its ever likely we're on the end of shit results every week.

So why we're these senior players not got rid of ? Why havent we replaced them so we've got players that will drag us over the line whilst youth develops. They're on great money, long contracts ? Ole thought they'd deliver ?. The board failed ?.
Why were Lukaku, Herrera, Fellaini, Sanchez never replaced ?. I do not care any of those left, but they weren't replaced. It is apparent, particularly after the comments Ole made last week, that the club ear marked Dybala, he was the one, and he didn't want to move, it failed. It looks like Dembele was fancied, that didn't materialize either for whatever reason. What about midfield ? We know Ole wanted Longstaff, that is not in doubt, Bruno Fernandes was also strongly linked (whether that was genuine or agent hype I do not know). But we know Ole wanted a striker and midfielder in addition to the defensive signings this summer, and they didn't come in. The board have failed him, like they've failed every manager, despite the money they've spent. I do not think it was unreasonable to expect those signings, and considering they all didn't arrive, how can the board then turn around and say ta rah Ole, half way through the reason. Ole is making a rod for his own back by defending the ownership and board though, by regurgitating the youth philosophy. Minimum, he wanted a striker and midfielder.
If Ole sat there and said, right, its going to take me a while to sort this shit out. But, we've improved the deference, strengthened the midfield and molded the attack which will help us play how I envisage us playing. My hope is this spine will get us over the line whilst youth develops, because youth is the way I want to go. In the meantime, we may have a few bumps in the road, but we're going to be committed, and play decent football. Next summer we'll make 2 or 3 of the right additions again. The result would be, something we could get behind, something tangible. Right now there is nothing, he's asking us to be patient, in the hope any of these youth players cut it, and when our senior players fail to deliver every week.

Ole, McKenna, Carrick, Phelan....... is this manager and coaching team good enough even with the shit that is going on above and around them ? and at what point do we say, no. Id like to see Ole get another summer window and next season, but we're in £#%&!ing free-fall. He's asking for patience, I am willing to give it, I have given it, I want him to succeed, but he's giving me nothing to get behind. There are injuries, but one way or another, he's going to have to get it together, because the ship cant sink with Ole shouting patience. To get this time, that management team need to start delivering.

The amount of times the first touch of each player takes them towards our own goal, before passing sideways, being pressed and launching a ball forward is incredible. £#%&!ing shithouses.

Good post imo.

Originally Posted by AK14

Good post imo.

Thanks. As mentioned, just to make myself feel better really, surely others feel similar though. I'm Ole IN anyway for now.

Originally Posted by Soviet

Sure

- The board are c***s
- Unlike you, I am not stabbing Ole in the back considering he's walked into 6 years of incompetence
- Our senior players are shit, which are not helping the youth out
- There is a line however, because we're in free-fall and the football is dog shit, Ole and his coaching staff need to get it together, to get time

I made several points, hence the summary provided

Great points, glad someone’s finally mentioned them. Not sure how wanting Ole to walk away from this shower of shit before his entire legacy is pulled to pieces is stabbing him in the back though.

I love Ole and he will always be a legend to me as a player. However, he is currently learning as he goes due to lack of experience and we need better right now. The pressure will only increase from here too.

There are simply no signs of improvement on the pitch. It would be a miracle to get anything from Liverpool with the current form and we will soon be bottom 3. Very few shots on target against Newcastle and AZ combined is telling.

It also does not help when he says we should have won when we were dire.

er... we should have won.

Originally Posted by bazrah99

I love Ole and he will always be a legend to me as a player. However, he is currently learning as he goes due to lack of experience and we need better right now. The pressure will only increase from here too.

There are simply no signs of improvement on the pitch. It would be a miracle to get anything from Liverpool with the current form and we will soon be bottom 3. Very few shots on target against Newcastle and AZ combined is telling.

It also does not help when he says we should have won when we were dire.

He's probably not saying that behind closed doors. I think he's also learning very quickly about the modern day player and their mentality.

The old authoritarian, hair-dryer, brian clough/Fergie style managers are long dead and the modern day players don't seem to respond to that type of manager any more. All the successful ones seem to be very intense but also very chummy almost mentor type relationship with their players.

I do worry that Ole has gone in there trying to replicate the hard-nosed style of Fergie management where he relied on big personalities and leaders in the dressing room to take his %@#$&!ings on board and act accordingly.

Originally Posted by Vedder

I love Ole, will always be a legend but he’s got to go, it’s not all his fault and the squad is shocking but we’re going backwards, I genuinely think we could go down if he’s here all season, I don’t know where the next goal is coming from let alone a win ffs! We’ve played the worst team in the league yesterday and didn’t even look like scoring. Move him upstairs.

Seen this a few times, Watford are so bad that people forget they even exist

Originally Posted by jem

er... we should have won.

Same as Wolves, Palace etc. If Maguire puts that header away we may have done, or we may have drawn. But he didnt, and when you create 1 chance every three games, you should really take it.

Originally Posted by Switching Off

Same as Wolves, Palace etc. If Maguire puts that header away we may have done, or we may have drawn. But he didnt, and when you create 1 chance every three games, you should really take it.

yes. if we'd had a bit of luck... or even just the more nailed on than liverpool's penalties we should have had, we'd be in the top four, confidence would be high and maybe even pogba wouldn't be hiding. liverpool haven't deserved to win their last couple of games.

we look clueless with the ball, though. especially when the opposition don't defend on the half-way line.

whatever, we should have beaten newcastle.

Originally Posted by jem

yes. if we'd had a bit of luck... or even just the more nailed on than liverpool's penalties we should have had, we'd be in the top four, confidence would be high and maybe even pogba wouldn't be hiding. liverpool haven't deserved to win their last couple of games.

we look clueless with the ball, though. especially when the opposition don't defend on the half-way line.

whatever, we should have beaten newcastle.

Neither have we.

Originally Posted by jem

yes. if we'd had a bit of luck... or even just the more nailed on than liverpool's penalties we should have had, we'd be in the top four, confidence would be high and maybe even pogba wouldn't be hiding. liverpool haven't deserved to win their last couple of games.

we look clueless with the ball, though. especially when the opposition don't defend on the half-way line.

whatever, we should have beaten newcastle.

Please stop.

Originally Posted by Vedder

Out obviously. What rebuild? We’re going backwards

You don’t seem to understand what a rebuild is, from such fundamental issues and with a board that won’t do it all at once like at city.

The last time we rebuilt was in the eighties. That was hardly a linear process.

https://twitter.com/FootballJOE/status/1180896519337267202?s=20

Originally Posted by utd99

I’m not an ‘out’ mate. I’d see us go down before turfing him out. He’s just not doing a great job atm.

Who says it’s him that’s not doing a great job? Have the issues at Tottenham not demonstrated how dressing room dynamics trump everything else when it comes to performances and results? United’s problems are mostly a player and dressing room dynamics issue along with the board not doing enough with ins and outs. This squad just can’t handle expectation, which is one reason they collapsed last season as soon as there was some.

If the club had bought the two midfielders and some kind of striker, which is what ole is supposed to have wanted, we wouldn’t be having this discussion. It’s ridiculous that the club only buys the manager half the players they should have, yet it’s the manager getting the blame. It also shows how bad the dressing room issues are that he’d rather still get rid of various players rather than keep them because the club didn’t get replacements.

Until he’s had a fair chance to get the dressing room right via enough windows, we’ll have no idea whether ole is doing a good job or not, because it won’t be until then that things can change on the pitch. So far, he’s done well on the player front and that’s why he deserves more time as good sales and recruitment is the only way our issues get fixed. Ole just can’t have a quick 20 player turnover like guardiola could.

Originally Posted by AK14

I knew this season would be shit tbf, called it pretty early on that the board would screw Ole over and leave us short...

...I’m not saying this is Ole’s fault btw, this is because of the mismanagement over the last so many years by the board. The lack of structure in place and complete and utter mess that’s been our transfer strategy....

Yet you’d get rid of the manager despite saying he’s not been the problem or cause of the issues? The only way we get out of this mess is with good sales and buys. Ole has started that well, and deserves the opportunity to carry it through. What he doesn’t deserve is carrying the can for the faults of others.

Originally Posted by Baron

I voted In, it’s not black & white though is it? I think with a lot of time & a f***ton of money we could get Ole on the road... I’m just realistic about a proven coach taking the playing side & a guy who understands us taking the job he’s likely more qualified for. Strange times.

What’s all this coach talk? Ole is the manager, in the fergie mould. He’s not the coach. That’s phelan and co.

Originally Posted by marlo

very good post...
It’s scary people seem to think ole can turn it around...
Based on what exactly?

The players he’s bought and sold, and his approach. It’s more or less the first time in 6 years the club has bought a player that’s addressed the issues they were bought for, and ole has done it 3 times. If the club had bought the other players he wanted, we wouldn’t even be having this discussion. The players he’s got out of the club also shows he knows the problem and who needs to go. So to me, he has both aspects of what we need to sort our long standing issues, and the only way we become successful under the glazers is through what ole is doing.

Originally Posted by Soviet

A long story short - We're in the shit.

To answer the question, Ole IN, however painful this season is, give him the next summer transfer window, next season, and see where we're at. Unless we get relegated this season . Allegri rumours are starting to tempt me though (His style of football cant be that bad surely).

Having taken over a good team and won league’s in what’s been a one team league recently, he’s no more qualified than ole to sort our mess out, and he can’t even speak decent English ffs. Allegri is no solution. It’s the typical big name syndrome with no real coherent thinking behind it that’s got us where we are.

Originally Posted by Jammy Dodger

Who says it’s him that’s not doing a great job? Have the issues at Tottenham not demonstrated how dressing room dynamics trump everything else when it comes to performances and results? United’s problems are mostly a player and dressing room dynamics issue along with the board not doing enough with ins and outs. This squad just can’t handle expectation, which is one reason they collapsed last season as soon as there was some.

If the club had bought the two midfielders and some kind of striker, which is what ole is supposed to have wanted, we wouldn’t be having this discussion. It’s ridiculous that the club only buys the manager half the players they should have, yet it’s the manager getting the blame. It also shows how bad the dressing room issues are that he’d rather still get rid of various players rather than keep them because the club didn’t get replacements.

Until he’s had a fair chance to get the dressing room right via enough windows, we’ll have no idea whether ole is doing a good job or not, because it won’t be until then that things can change on the pitch. So far, he’s done well on the player front and that’s why he deserves more time as good sales and recruitment is the only way our issues get fixed. Ole just can’t have a quick 20 player turnover like guardiola could.



Yet you’d get rid of the manager despite saying he’s not been the problem or cause of the issues? The only way we get out of this mess is with good sales and buys. Ole has started that well, and deserves the opportunity to carry it through. What he doesn’t deserve is carrying the can for the faults of others.



What’s all this coach talk? Ole is the manager, in the fergie mould. He’s not the coach. That’s phelan and co.



The players he’s bought and sold, and his approach. It’s more or less the first time in 6 years the club has bought a player that’s addressed the issues they were bought for, and ole has done it 3 times. If the club had bought the other players he wanted, we wouldn’t even be having this discussion. The players he’s got out of the club also shows he knows the problem and who needs to go. So to me, he has both aspects of what we need to sort our long standing issues, and the only way we become successful under the glazers is through what ole is doing.



Having taken over a good team and won league’s in what’s been a one team league recently, he’s no more qualified than ole to sort our mess out, and he can’t even speak decent English ffs. Allegri is no solution. It’s the typical big name syndrome with no real coherent thinking behind it that’s got us where we are.

Jammeh

Originally Posted by Sparky***

The old authoritarian, hair-dryer, brian clough/Fergie style managers are long dead and the modern day players don't seem to respond to that type of manager any more. All the successful ones seem to be very intense but also very chummy almost mentor type relationship with their players.

Guardiola and klopp are both authoritarian and capable of the hair dryer.

I do worry that Ole has gone in there trying to replicate the hard-nosed style of Fergie management where he relied on big personalities and leaders in the dressing room to take his %@#$&!ings on board and act accordingly.

If you think guardiola or klopp don’t %@#$&! players, you’re way off. He’s been criticised for being too nice, and now he’s being critcised for being too hard. It’s fair to say the fans are clueless on what’s going on behind closed doors.

He simply hasn't had enough time to be properly assessed.

People's doubts and concerns are well founded, the conclusions are not.

We've tried changing at the first sign of trouble. Maybe actually try seeing one through?

Every man and his dog knew this season would be shit and rebuild, yet now it's unfolding, we want to change it all AGAIN?

Write this season off. If we do that, we can somewhat relax, stop being so reactive in the present for the benefit of our future.

We aren't going down. Stop looking at all these stats (worst start in 30 years etc), stop comparing ourselves to teams who currently have nothing to do with us.

We need to focus on building a side, a style, players that want to be here, keep using these kids etc. Focus on the damn process instead of looking at the points total all the time.

Finish 10th this season.

6th next.

Push for top four after that.

Get 10-15 players out of 4-6 window.

Similar amount in.

That's a rebuild. It takes time. Years. Not months.
. It takes commitment to an idea and a person.

As Jammy says, Ole has bought well, he's sold well (in terms of the type of player he doesn't want, even if its left us thin). Good recruitment will get us as close as we can with this ownership.

I dont buy this notion that we have no identity.

He's said numerous times the type of personality and player he wants. How he wants us to play. When we've played well, I think it's quite clear what he wants us to be. It's reflected in his signings and his commitment to these kids.

That can very quickly look far away when times are shit like this.

And it hurts. It hurts to be this shit after years of success. The impulse is to change it, but regardless of who is at the wheel, this will take £#%&!ing years to sort out, so we might as well show some faith in a guy we actually like.

Ole IN 😎

Originally Posted by Jammy Dodger

Who says it’s him that’s not doing a great job? Have the issues at Tottenham not demonstrated how dressing room dynamics trump everything else when it comes to performances and results? United’s problems are mostly a player and dressing room dynamics issue along with the board not doing enough with ins and outs. This squad just can’t handle expectation, which is one reason they collapsed last season as soon as there was some.

If the club had bought the two midfielders and some kind of striker, which is what ole is supposed to have wanted, we wouldn’t be having this discussion. It’s ridiculous that the club only buys the manager half the players they should have, yet it’s the manager getting the blame. It also shows how bad the dressing room issues are that he’d rather still get rid of various players rather than keep them because the club didn’t get replacements.

Until he’s had a fair chance to get the dressing room right via enough windows, we’ll have no idea whether ole is doing a good job or not, because it won’t be until then that things can change on the pitch. So far, he’s done well on the player front and that’s why he deserves more time as good sales and recruitment is the only way our issues get fixed. Ole just can’t have a quick 20 player turnover like guardiola could.



Yet you’d get rid of the manager despite saying he’s not been the problem or cause of the issues? The only way we get out of this mess is with good sales and buys. Ole has started that well, and deserves the opportunity to carry it through. What he doesn’t deserve is carrying the can for the faults of others.



What’s all this coach talk? Ole is the manager, in the fergie mould. He’s not the coach. That’s phelan and co.



The players he’s bought and sold, and his approach. It’s more or less the first time in 6 years the club has bought a player that’s addressed the issues they were bought for, and ole has done it 3 times. If the club had bought the other players he wanted, we wouldn’t even be having this discussion. The players he’s got out of the club also shows he knows the problem and who needs to go. So to me, he has both aspects of what we need to sort our long standing issues, and the only way we become successful under the glazers is through what ole is doing.



Having taken over a good team and won league’s in what’s been a one team league recently, he’s no more qualified than ole to sort our mess out, and he can’t even speak decent English ffs. Allegri is no solution. It’s the typical big name syndrome with no real coherent thinking behind it that’s got us where we are.

I’d get rid if Poch became available because I think Poch is the better manager. The mess isn’t his fault, but the results are worse than what they should be because we’ve got the players capable of beating Newcastle. He needs to win games and the team performances need to get better, That’s something we can judge him on and it’s not been good enough.

Poch won’t become available until the summer though imo, so plenty of time for Ole to turn things around and shove my opinion down my throat and It’s why I voted to keep Ole for now.