How on earth is a Hargreaves + Carrick partnership supposed to take the team forward?

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

You'd have a look at Sneijder would you? Funny as £#%&! No-one else has thought of that, eh Luffy!

What about the prospect of having more than two players for the centre midfield? You thought of that?

Hargreaves is a fine player and will be (hopefully) an excellent signing, not least for all the OPTIONS he offers.

Hello mr Sun reader. have you been drinking red bulls or something? that was a very hyper post for 2am.

anyway I've just ate half a mars bar so I will crush you with my chocolatey energy.

Did I ever say I dont want Hargreaves or he is bad? Thats not the issue, the question is if Hargreaves and Carrick is our new backbone ala Scholes and Keane, I think we'd be £#%&!ed. Hargreaves would be a great squad player, but its clear he isnt coming to do that. Rotation perhaps - Is that the answer to the original question then?

Hargreaves will do one thing and that is toughen up our midfield when we're wobbly or losing the battle, we can put him on instead of O'Shea and thats great. But as a first choice alongside Carrick? I dont rate it. As I said, when we're struggling to break down a stubborn defence, he's wouldnt help, and neither would Carrick tbh.

Whats wrong with Sneijder? I'm sorry was I supposed to say a bigger name or perhaps an unknown to surprise you all? o_0 He will be available soon and is a good player. These quality players ARE out there, the next Fabregas or Kaka etc.

Originally Posted by Luffy

Hello mr Sun reader. have you been drinking red bulls or something? that was a very hyper post for 2am.

anyway I've just ate half a mars bar so I will crush you with my chocolatey energy.

Did I ever say I dont want Hargreaves or he is bad? Thats not the issue, the question is if Hargreaves and Carrick is our new backbone ala Scholes and Keane, I think we'd be £#%&!ed. Hargreaves would be a great squad player, but its clear he isnt coming to do that. Rotation perhaps - Is that the answer to the original question then?

Hargreaves will do one thing and that is toughen up our midfield when we're wobbly or losing the battle, we can put him on instead of O'Shea and thats great. But as a first choice alongside Carrick? I dont rate it. As I said, when we're struggling to break down a stubborn defence, he's wouldnt help, and neither would Carrick tbh.

Whats wrong with Sneijder? I'm sorry was I supposed to say a bigger name or perhaps an unknown to surprise you all? o_0 He will be available soon and is a good player. These quality players ARE out there, the next Fabregas or Kaka etc.

i'll help mister throb here. wesley is £#%&!ing average, runs up and down the pitch a lot but can't keep posetion against better teams.

Fabregas is a maggot. Not fit to be mentioned in the same breath as Kaka at the moment either, and probably never will be.

Hargreaves to be brought on to shore it up in place of O'Shea? You're taking the piss now.

Sneijder will do for me at OT - the more the merrier. You answered your own question, although you called using the squad "rotation" for some reason. United have been using the squad all season and we're 6pts clear. Making that squad better is what it's all about.

As for the Sun jibe? Not to put too fine a point on it: £#%&! you

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

Fabregas is a maggot. Not fit to be mentioned in the same breath as Kaka at the moment either, and probably never will be.

Hargreaves to be brought on to shore it up in place of O'Shea? You're taking the piss now.

Sneijder will do for me at OT - the more the merrier. You answered your own question, although you called using the squad "rotation" for some reason. United have been using the squad all season and we're 6pts clear. Making that squad better is what it's all about.

As for the Sun jibe? Not to put too fine a point on it: £#%&! you

the bold bits confuse me, first of all they dont make sense, read things carefully before you post. 2nd, why are you telling me about squad rotation as if you are telling me I'm wrong? This confuses me, stop dragging basic knowledge into this debate. I'm not on about the squad, I jus said in my previous post that Hargreaves would be a good squad player, but as first choice I have my doubts. Blimey.

I'd take Fabregas in a heartbeat. Great player - you're stupid.

Sneijder isnt my choice, but I'd look at him, good shot, set pieces and he is simply a danger on the pitch. Hardly the finished article though.

Fletcher and O'Shea seem more likely to score than Carrick or Hargreaves tbh and that doesnt bode well.

but man you're sensationalist reaction to my posts is boring now. I'd done ranting awhile ago, if you want me to entertain you further, you have to first be entertaining yourself, not repeat some weird mumbo jumbo.

When Scholes and Giggs move on, would you be happy with a Hargreaves and Carrick partnership taking us thorugh the season?

As for squad rotation, its mostly a recognised first 11 with a few tweaks now and then which has brought us success so far.

p.s. How is having Hargreaves as back up instead of O'Shea taking the piss?

I've said it before and Ill say it again. If he is after a Hargreave's and Carrick midfield two they'll play a simlar way to the way Pirlo and Gattuso have played for the past 5 or so years. I think it's a very effective way of playing and some of the players we have atm are perfect for such a system.

We need another two midfielders imo so Hargreaves and Nani will do for me as I honestly think at some point in the next few years Rooney will drop back to play a Scholes type role or Ronaldo will move into the middle the more his game progresses ala Zidane.

it's pointless. fergie will not repace scholes with someone similar - he will construct a m/f which he believes will be successful. of course, he'll want elements of creativity, discipline and so on and so on, but these are not embodied in individual players, but are the product of the players as a group.

i remember most of the comments regarding carrick were similar, along the lines of 'we need a new keane', as though builing a team were simply a matter of finding a dm or an am (or whatever acronyms the computer game uses this year) with the best stats. united's midfields have varied a lot over the years. to give one example, beckham was never a winger as such. he was very different to kanchelskis and to ronaldo - i don't think anyone would disagree with that. fergie didn't look for a replacement for kanchelskis but for a player who would bring something (something different) to the team, and who had the qualities of discipline and attitude to fit in.

hargreaves isn't meant to the new keane, or carrick the new scholes. they're meant to be who they are and fergie obviously thinks that they will fit in together. he's generally right about these things, you know.

Originally Posted by borsuk

(or whatever acronyms the computer game uses this year)

That and the role Makelele plays seems to have made a lot of people DM crazy.

Originally Posted by borsuk

it's pointless. fergie will not repace scholes with someone similar - he will construct a m/f which he believes will be successful. of course, he'll want elements of creativity, discipline and so on and so on, but these are not embodied in individual players, but are the product of the players as a group.

i remember most of the comments regarding carrick were similar, along the lines of 'we need a new keane', as though builing a team were simply a matter of finding a dm or an am (or whatever acronyms the computer game uses this year) with the best stats. united's midfields have varied a lot over the years. to give one example, beckham was never a winger as such. he was very different to kanchelskis and to ronaldo - i don't think anyone would disagree with that. fergie didn't look for a replacement for kanchelskis but for a player who would bring something (something different) to the team, and who had the qualities of discipline and attitude to fit in.

hargreaves isn't meant to the new keane, or carrick the new scholes. they're meant to be who they are and fergie obviously thinks that they will fit in together. he's generally right about these things, you know.

Superb post borsuk.

Originally Posted by Whalefish

Superb post borsuk.

Certainly is. Some seem to think you just go out and find identikit replacements for players you had before. You don't you get players who compliment eachother and then get 'em to play in an attacking style. In '94 we had Ince and Keane in midfield, we replaced Ince with Scholes, not exactly like for like. Teams change and evolve according to the players available, it's the intent to play attacking football that matters.

Borsuk 'the knife' cuts through the crap.

Nice post.

hargreaves wil be our new right back ....motwyw

Originally Posted by Camel

well, that tends to happen when you are only 18 and can't interpret adult speak. i suggest you get some always ultra to line your pants.

Originally Posted by shadowplay

Ffs,mate.I agree with your posts on this thread.I was merely laughing at the way he £#%&!ing said that

First Red Caz calls you immature and now this.

Leave him alone !

Originally Posted by puressence

hargreaves wil be our new right back ....motwyw

Didn't he play right back against us at one point? iirc he was bloody good in that position.

Originally Posted by Crumpsall

Didn't he play right back against us at one point? iirc he was bloody good in that position.

yep had giggs in his pocket at old trafford .we drew nil nil

Originally Posted by borsuk

it's pointless. fergie will not repace scholes with someone similar - he will construct a m/f which he believes will be successful. of course, he'll want elements of creativity, discipline and so on and so on, but these are not embodied in individual players, but are the product of the players as a group.

i remember most of the comments regarding carrick were similar, along the lines of 'we need a new keane', as though builing a team were simply a matter of finding a dm or an am (or whatever acronyms the computer game uses this year) with the best stats. united's midfields have varied a lot over the years. to give one example, beckham was never a winger as such. he was very different to kanchelskis and to ronaldo - i don't think anyone would disagree with that. fergie didn't look for a replacement for kanchelskis but for a player who would bring something (something different) to the team, and who had the qualities of discipline and attitude to fit in.

hargreaves isn't meant to the new keane, or carrick the new scholes. they're meant to be who they are and fergie obviously thinks that they will fit in together. he's generally right about these things, you know.

.

Scholes and Giggs cannot play every game. nft.

Originally Posted by Luffy

Carrick is a poor man's.... Veron.

you got that right. it's not a bad thing to be, though.

Originally Posted by Macca1990

We all no he has made some bad ones but it has never been anything major (veron apart)

The fact you compare carrick to veron and beckham points towards sheer ignorance on your part.... veron.... had all the attributes to be a classic player but just lacked the phisque to cut it in England

Originally Posted by Luffy

This is why I was confused we got Carrick. Its not as simple as pass the ball to others - job done. its about keeping things ticking, working the spaces and a lot of other stuff. not to mention goal threat.

Hargreaves and Carrick might have 3 goals in them per season and 5 assists if we're lucky. Neither are a threat in the air. To me it seems extremely lacking in options. When its 0-0 vs Sheffield and we cant £#%&!ing score, what will Carrick or Hargreaves do? Not a lot.

Not championship material I'm afraid. Who could we sign?

I'd have a look at Sneijder, and sniff around a few others.

if we'd had hargreaves and carrick last year, we'd have won the league. all we needed was a basically competent midfield. they're probably a bit better than the minimum required... and so far ahead of fletch, park, o'shea or smith, it's staggering.

Originally Posted by Tiberian

Hargreaves has been used in a defensive role for much of his career, but for me he can offer more than that, like Ince and Keane in the 94 team he is a box to box player, quick, great engine, and more quality than he is given credit for.

Scholes maybe has 1 more year of play at the top level left, his legs are virtually gone. Hargreaves does not necessarily mean return to 1 striker, gives options and strength in depth

indeed.

Originally Posted by Crumpsall

I've said it before and Ill say it again. If he is after a Hargreave's and Carrick midfield two they'll play a simlar way to the way Pirlo and Gattuso have played for the past 5 or so years. I think it's a very effective way of playing and some of the players we have atm are perfect for such a system.

We need another two midfielders imo so Hargreaves and Nani will do for me as I honestly think at some point in the next few years Rooney will drop back to play a Scholes type role or Ronaldo will move into the middle the more his game progresses ala Zidane.

rooney to fill the scholes role. now they can't argue.

Originally Posted by borsuk

it's pointless. fergie will not repace scholes with someone similar - he will construct a m/f which he believes will be successful. of course, he'll want elements of creativity, discipline and so on and so on, but these are not embodied in individual players, but are the product of the players as a group.

i remember most of the comments regarding carrick were similar, along the lines of 'we need a new keane', as though builing a team were simply a matter of finding a dm or an am (or whatever acronyms the computer game uses this year) with the best stats. united's midfields have varied a lot over the years. to give one example, beckham was never a winger as such. he was very different to kanchelskis and to ronaldo - i don't think anyone would disagree with that. fergie didn't look for a replacement for kanchelskis but for a player who would bring something (something different) to the team, and who had the qualities of discipline and attitude to fit in.

hargreaves isn't meant to the new keane, or carrick the new scholes. they're meant to be who they are and fergie obviously thinks that they will fit in together. he's generally right about these things, you know.

I believe it was churchill who said..... "oh, yes!" :0)

I hate threads like this, especially by people like Luffy. Going into detail over little things.

Blah blah is blah's replacement

That system wouldn't work blah

Look how blah do their formation

Regarding formations/systems, United are at their best attacking and taking the game to the opposition with a balanced system, doesn't need to be a set system, to a degree, yes, but not completely. There is no new Scholes' we will find a player to fit Manchester United. We currently need a player with a good engine, who can tackle - who will generally give us a great engine and help us get hold of games. He's not going to be bought to replace Carrick or Scholes, he is being bought to be Owen Hargreaves.

Yes, we might only be able to play two out of the three, what a £#%&!ing diaster that is, eh? Who would have thought it - options. I've noticed suddenly whenever there's talk of a player we have people posting stuff about how how will they play, someone will have to miss out etc. And? Isn't that a good thing. He would be a very good signing and just what we need, but the likes of Luffy would rather have a random foreigner who is good on Pro Evo and wears green boots, they recommend these players and suggest Manchester United could some how get them for about six million.

For what it's worth I don't think we'll be able to get him in this window, but in the summer I think we will.

End of rant, or whatever it was.

Originally Posted by MUFC One Love

he is being bought to be Owen Hargreaves.

in that case, we £#%&!ing have to get him.

Originally Posted by MUFC One Love

I hate threads like this, especially by people like Luffy. Going into detail over little things.

Blah blah is blah's replacement

That system wouldn't work blah

Look how blah do their formation

Regarding formations/systems, United are at their best attacking and taking the game to the opposition with a balanced system, doesn't need to be a set system, to a degree, yes, but not completely. There is no new Scholes' we will find a player to fit Manchester United. We currently need a player with a good engine, who can tackle - who will generally give us a great engine and help us get hold of games. He's not going to be bought to replace Carrick or Scholes, he is being bought to be Owen Hargreaves.

Yes, we might only be able to play two out of the three, what a £#%&!ing diaster that is, eh? Who would have thought it - options. I've noticed suddenly whenever there's talk of a player we have people posting stuff about how how will they play, someone will have to miss out etc. And? Isn't that a good thing. He would be a very good signing and just what we need, but the likes of Luffy would rather have a random foreigner who is good on Pro Evo and wears green boots, they recommend these players and suggest Manchester United could some how get them for about six million.

For what it's worth I don't think we'll be able to get him in this window, but in the summer I think we will.

End of rant, or whatever it was.

you are a liar and all you do is spread shit about me. Its £#%&!ing insane, you have some weird complex with me dont you? why the hate? when have I ever recommended a player from a game or even displayed behaviour that alludes to that? you've always imagined things and then outright accused me of it and frankly its gay. stop it. you must have me confused with "the likes of" someone else.

Carrick and Hargreaves would very much resemble the Gattusso and Pirlo link, however Ac Milan play with a diamond formation, and really Pirlo is a tad more dangerous player than Carrick - if he starts showing us he has a good shot etc then fantastic.

This isn't even about Hargreaves being anyones replacement, its about how them two will be our backbone for the next 5 years or so.

But seems everyone is of the opinion that Hargreaves is coming to improve our options and strengthen our squad - everyone agrees with me then! As a first choice midfield to carry us through a season, Hargreaves + Carrick is weak and lacking in ideas.

but yeah good signing, but I hope Fergie has someone else in mind as well.