Barca v Bayern

Originally Posted by Semantic Lisp

yes, but United and Ferguson get called out for it even now - poor tactics, poor transfer markets, lack of ambition, poor coaching blah blah blah

as Tiberian rightly says imo, bayern have rigged their own league and were in an incredible position when guardiola took over to dominate in europe. last season they got taken apart by real and this season it's looking as if barcelona will convincingly knock them out again - playing in a more dynamic 'play style' than guardiola's version did, too.

You say that, but with most of their best players around the 30 mark. Plus, boiling the whole season down to one game as is the case for him at Bayern is pretty harsh. Yes they're dominant in Germany, but there's still been plenty to admire about what he's brought.

Also, Pep hasn't been able to build the side much. You look at his attacking options in Ribery, Robben, Goetze, Muller, Lewandowski and they're fine players, but none of them are his guys. In particular Lewandowski is one he suggests he didn't actually want. I think they'd be better off allowing him to re-shape things a bit. Wouldn't surprise me if he extended his deal under those circumstances.

Agree with Coracao, though. Would love to see him take a tough job in Italy to really test himself.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

You say that, but with most of their best players around the 30 mark. Plus, boiling the whole season down to one game as is the case for him at Bayern is pretty harsh. Yes they're dominant in Germany, but there's still been plenty to admire about what he's brought.

Also, Pep hasn't been able to build the side much. You look at his attacking options in Ribery, Robben, Goetze, Muller, Lewandowski and they're fine players, but none of them are his guys. In particular Lewandowski is one he suggests he didn't actually want. I think they'd be better off allowing him to re-shape things a bit. Wouldn't surprise me if he extended his deal under those circumstances.

Agree with Coracao, though. Would love to see him take a tough job in Italy to really test himself.

I'm judging him by very harsh standards yes, but it's not out of snide. i'm genuinely shocked by how poorly he's done in the CL with bayern. someone mentioned the 5-0 rout of real he managed at barca, but the fact real routed his bayern side last season could suggest his influence was not the decisive factor in either result. however, you'd be stretching it to make that same case for barca also battering his bayern side last night - given that bayern had obliterated barca on their way to the treble just before guardiola arrived. cba to rewrite that but you get the drift, i imagine.

A Barca at absolute full strength and a Munich missing 5/6 players that would probably start including 2 of their main attacking threats...

It was pretty even until Neymar's cheating distracted the Bayern defence too...

Originally Posted by Semantic Lisp

I'm judging him by very harsh standards yes, but it's not out of snide. i'm genuinely shocked by how poorly he's done in the CL with bayern. someone mentioned the 5-0 rout of real he managed at barca, but the fact real routed his bayern side last season could suggest his influence was not the decisive factor in either result. however, you'd be stretching it to make that same case for barca also battering his bayern side last night - given that bayern had obliterated barca on their way to the treble just before guardiola arrived. cba to rewrite that but you get the drift, i imagine.

To be fair, Bayern were doing pretty well second half last night and it was 0-0 with 15 minutes left. Messi decided the game. Also, when Bayern went to Camp Nou two years ago they sat deep and played on the break with Ribery and Robben. Pep didn't have that option.

And last year they dominated Real Madrid at the Bernabeu in a way I don't know I've ever seen in the first half. Despite being somewhat out of form themselves. Lost by a goal and then a couple of set pieces in Munich ended the tie.

Overall, the huge myth that he took the easy option by joining a club that had won the lot (they hadn't when he agreed to the job of course ) is easily dispelled because taking over a side that has peaked, with several players in their prime, can be very difficult. Especially when you'll largely be judged by a cup competition that can owe so much to fine details and fortune.

I doubt anyone at Bayern will be overreacting to what's happened. They just need to help him improve things.

Originally Posted by dunk

A Barca at absolute full strength and a Munich missing 5/6 players that would probably start including 2 of their main attacking threats...

It was pretty even until Neymar's cheating distracted the Bayern defence too...

what? Barca should have been out of sight after the first 20 mins.

Originally Posted by angrydimaria

what? Barca should have been out of sight after the first 20 mins.

But they weren't...

Originally Posted by dunk

But they weren't...

how is it pretty even then? Are you just looking at the scoreline?

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

To be fair, Bayern were doing pretty well second half last night and it was 0-0 with 15 minutes left. Messi decided the game. Also, when Bayern went to Camp Nou two years ago they sat deep and played on the break with Ribery and Robben. Pep didn't have that option.

And last year they dominated Real Madrid at the Bernabeu in a way I don't know I've ever seen in the first half. Despite being somewhat out of form themselves. Lost by a goal and then a couple of set pieces in Munich ended the tie.

Overall, the huge myth that he took the easy option by joining a club that had won the lot (they hadn't when he agreed to the job of course ) is easily dispelled because taking over a side that has peaked, with several players in their prime, can be very difficult. Especially when you'll largely be judged by a cup competition that can owe so much to fine details and fortune.

I doubt anyone at Bayern will be overreacting to what's happened. They just need to help him improve things.

the 2nd leg will have a lot to do with how bayern react

tbf Bayern were hanging in there until messi's goal, and dunk is right about neymar's snide being a critical distraction. mess's 2nd has been talked up to £#%&! but actually he just twisted boateng, hardly the greatest feat, and then lifted it like so many players do those days.

i admit i watched the game originally through a peroni haze

Originally Posted by angrydimaria

how is it pretty even then? Are you just looking at the scoreline?