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View Poll Results: Is Lionel Messi the greatest player ever?
Yes 38 37.62%
No 63 62.38%
Voters: 101. You may not vote on this poll

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Unread 21-03-2012, 12:03 AM
King Schlong
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crumps
..and he did most of it on a £#%&!ing comedown.

I can't function in work the day after a proper night on the yay ffs.
 
Unread 21-03-2012, 12:23 AM
Grimson
 
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If you base it on achievements then I doubt he'll ever do what Maradona did. Messi plays on maybe the greatest club side of all time, and even if he wins a World Cup with Argentina, it'll likely be with better players than Diego had around him - good ones, but not great.

Based purely on ability and performance, I've never seen anything like Messi. Closest was fat Ronaldo in his prime.

It doesn't matter that he's one-footed or can't head the ball if you can't stop that one foot.
 
Unread 21-03-2012, 12:27 AM
JakeB
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimson
If you base it on achievements then I doubt he'll ever do what Maradona did. Messi plays on maybe the greatest club side of all time, and even if he wins a World Cup with Argentina, it'll likely be with better players than Diego had around him - good ones, but not great.

Based purely on ability and performance, I've never seen anything like Messi. Closest was fat Ronaldo in his prime.

It doesn't matter that he's one-footed or can't head the ball if you can't stop that one foot.
Unless he's playing against us of course
 
Unread 21-03-2012, 12:32 AM
King Schlong
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JakeB
Unless he's playing against us of course
Quality header.

Remember saying to myself its on his head, no way.

Boom, game over.
 
Unread 21-03-2012, 12:44 AM
taff
 
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in terms of sheer technical ability he's as good as any there ever was, but i think there's another side to it. some of the romance of great footballers lies in the personality of their game and the spirit, attitude and style they bring to the field. it's part of what makes us cherish the likes of maradona, garrincha and best. i don't really get a sense of that from messi; he's a joy to watch, but at the same time there's something faintly anodyne about him.

of course it's a bit of a superficial argument - there's been all manner of great uncharismatic footballers - but the ones who become icons do carry a certain edge.
 
Unread 21-03-2012, 01:03 AM
Grimson
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taff
in terms of sheer technical ability he's as good as any there ever was, but i think there's another side to it. some of the romance of great footballers lies in the personality of their game and the spirit, attitude and style they bring to the field. it's part of what makes us cherish the likes of maradona, garrincha and best. i don't really get a sense of that from messi; he's a joy to watch, but at the same time there's something faintly anodyne about him.

of course it's a bit of a superficial argument - there's been all manner of great uncharismatic footballers - but the ones who become icons do carry a certain edge.
Ooh look at Mr. Smart Guy.

You're right tho. He's not very expressive, and if anything you get the feeling he's sometimes embarrassed by what he does and how easy it seems. The swagger of a Best or Maradona or the cool arrogance of a Beckenbauer or Cruyff helped make them seem bigger than the game. Whereas Messi, through no fault of his own, tends to just make his opponents look amateur.
 
Unread 21-03-2012, 01:06 AM
caleb2003
 
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Its true, he really needs to Leave Barca and go to a club in transition (er United please) and see how well he does then
 
Unread 21-03-2012, 01:21 AM
dunk
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimson
If you base it on achievements then I doubt he'll ever do what Maradona did. Messi plays on maybe the greatest club side of all time, and even if he wins a World Cup with Argentina, it'll likely be with better players than Diego had around him - good ones, but not great.

Based purely on ability and performance, I've never seen anything like Messi. Closest was fat Ronaldo in his prime.

It doesn't matter that he's one-footed or can't head the ball if you can't stop that one foot.
Tbf, he isn't 1 footed and he's scored 5 or 6 headers this season including one from 18 yards.
 
Unread 21-03-2012, 01:23 AM
Sparky***
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Argentina
It's not about the tin-pot nations as much as it being without an unbelievable talented team which is entirely based around exploiting his undoubted talents.
So george best was over rated then because he couldn't do it without charlton and law?
 
Unread 21-03-2012, 01:38 AM
Stickman
 
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The World Cup is not a higher standard than the Champions League

He is the best, I dont realy like him but I reckon its true. Just goes out and scores a double whenever he can be arsed.
 
Unread 21-03-2012, 01:40 AM
M-13
 
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Ask any Argentinian and they dont rate him (as highly as the coke king) cos he does not do the business with the national side.

Nor do I.
 
Unread 21-03-2012, 01:42 AM
Sparky***
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stickman
The World Cup is not a higher standard than the Champions League

He is the best, I dont realy like him but I reckon its true. Just goes out and scores a double whenever he can be arsed.
No, it isn't really is it - well not nowadays anyway.

But, the question about whether he's the greatest of all time imo comes down to consistency. It's the staggering consistency that sets him apart for me.

Plenty of players have shone as bright as messi in the past, but how many have done it for this long and dominated for as long as he has?

He scores shitloads of goals, but look at the type of goals he scores. If any of our lot scored even a fraction of the type of goals he does EVERY weekend, we'd be reminiscing about them for years.
 
Unread 21-03-2012, 01:43 AM
Sparky***
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M-13
Ask any Argentinian and they dont rate him (as highly as the coke king) cos he does not do the business with the national side.

Nor do I.
Well then they don't deserve him the £#%&!ing idiots.
 
Unread 21-03-2012, 01:44 AM
Sandman
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky***
So george best was over rated then because he couldn't do it without charlton and law?
Best only played about 12 games more for United after Charlton retired, and by that point he'd been carrying a declining United team for quite a few seasons. Basically it's not comparable in any way, shape, or form to Messi's situation, if you put Messi in the 1974 United team do you think he would score 50 goals a season?
 
Unread 21-03-2012, 01:46 AM
Sparky***
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandman
Best only played about 12 games more for United after Charlton retired, and by that point he'd been carrying a declining United team for quite a few seasons. Basically it's not comparable in any way, shape, or form to Messi's situation, if you put Messi in the 1974 United team do you think he would score 50 goals a season?
that wasn't really my point.

My point is that George best couldn't win a world cup for northern ireland on his own - so he can never be considered as one of/the best player of all time?

No, of course not. He is rightly mentioned among the best of all time because he was a genius at man utd.
 
Unread 21-03-2012, 01:46 AM
M-13
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky***
Well then they don't deserve him the £#%&!ing idiots.
They dont give a £#%&! about him tbh.
 
Unread 21-03-2012, 01:48 AM
Grimson
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M-13
Ask any Argentinian and they dont rate him (as highly as the coke king) cos he does not do the business with the national side.
They're stupid and it's not even true. He is routinely the best player in their national team games. What's he had, 5 managers? Their failures are hardly his fault, he's just an easy scapegoat, and only because they resent that he left the country without playing domestically.
 
Unread 21-03-2012, 01:48 AM
Sparky***
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M-13
They dont give a £#%&! about him tbh.
Again, like i said - then they're morons. No better than the mongoloids who follow england round and slag every man utd player off because they don't win game for them on their own.
 
Unread 21-03-2012, 01:49 AM
M-13
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky***
that wasn't really my point.

My point is that George best couldn't win a world cup for northern ireland on his own - so he can never be considered as one of/the best player of all time?

No, of course not. He is rightly mentioned among the best of all time because he was a genius at man utd.
He couldn't even get them to qualify ffs. Played with some £#%&!in shite when at NI so he did.
 
Unread 21-03-2012, 01:51 AM
M-13
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimson
They're stupid and it's not even true. He is routinely the best player in their national team games. What's he had, 5 managers? Their failures are hardly his fault, he's just an easy scapegoat, and only because they resent that he left the country without playing domestically.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky***
Again, like i said - then they're morons. No better than the mongoloids who follow england round and slag every man utd player off because they don't win game for them on their own.
Exactly nail on heads...
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