Is Lionel Messi the greatest player ever?

Seeing as its being discussed in the la liga thread lets have it out on here.

Not for me

Not yet...

Am starting to think that if he isn't quite there yet, he will be

He makes it look easy, but would he fit in the premiership.

Needs a world cup win.

Yeah, I think I'm in the 'has to do it at the World Cup' brigade, too.

What could possibly be a valid reason for saying yes?

Because of his goalscoring record?

Genuinely curious.

This is his peak, he's not gonna suddenly add new thing to his game. He's enjoying freedom in one of the best club sides of all time in one of the poorest periods for La Liga. He is facing financially and physically decimated clubs every week. In europe his biggest rival has been United's worst team for years. we can say worst team even though its in transition, because it actually reached European cup finals and is there to be judged even if the job was nowhere near done.

He's no Maradona and never will be. He's not even Ronaldinho imo. A peak Ronaldinho with this current Barca side built around him would do whatever Messi's doing now and more.

Cristiano Ronaldo, a vastly inferior player is putting up similar stats to Messi btw.

Originally Posted by saffers

What could possibly be a valid reason for saying yes?

Because of his goalscoring record?

Genuinely curious.

This is his peak, he's not gonna suddenly add new thing to his game. He's enjoying freedom in one of the best club sides of all time in one of the poorest.

He's no Maradona and never will be. He's not even Ronaldinho imo. A peak Ronaldinho with this current Barca side built around him would do whatever Messi's doing now and more.

Cristiano Ronaldo, a vastly inferior player is putting up similar stats to Messi btw.

No he wouldn't. Ronaldinho was a great player, but he isn't even the best Brazilian player of recent times.

Ronaldo is better than Ronaldinho as well btw.

I honestly don't think he is, this isn't baseball where you can judge closely based on statistics alone.

Originally Posted by dunk

No he wouldn't. Ronaldinho was a great player, but he isn't even the best Brazilian player of recent times.

Ronaldo is better than Ronaldinho as well btw.

Injuries killed Big Ronners though.

Originally Posted by saffers

Injuries killed Big Ronners though.

I meant Cristiano. Fatty was too, as was Romario. Kaka had a similar 2-3 year spell to Ronaldinho too.

I preferred Rivaldo to Ronaldinho tbh, and not just because 'dinho turned us down.

Rivaldo got a hat-trick at weekend playing in Azerbaijan or somewhere daft, he's 40

Sandman is spot on, put Cruyff or Best in the current Barca team = they automatically become the best ever?

Thats the best way to find out, is the player disposable? As awesome as he is, yes. Because there have been others better than him , in better eras.

Sanders is also spot on about stats, its hilarious how a team like Chelsea in 09/10, functional as £#%&! but scored shitloads of goals were hailed as a cavalier team. Same with City earlier in the season; "ohhh mancini has taken the shackles off etc"

They have never played cavalier football, without Silva theyd be a complete bunch of scrappers who rely on belligerence.

Goals dont equal entertainment or achievement. Its sad how certain people get branded unreal for hattricks and braces while others are accused of being limited and 'only scores goals'. Make your minds up.

No. Maradonna won a world cup on his own , Messi hasn't scored at the last 2 International tournaments :shakehead:

Originally Posted by Sandman

I honestly don't think he is, this isn't baseball where you can judge closely based on statistics alone.

Exactly. I hate these discussions about players being definitively the best ever. It's impossible to say.

It's more akin to talking about the greatest philosopher of all time or the greatest physicist or mathematician. What they have to work with depends on what has gone before them, as Newton so succinctly put.

Also, the health of football they play in are totally different. Football at the moment is piss poor in terms of the depth of good teams. No Ajax or Juventus with severely average Inter Milan and AC Milan teams while depressingly poor English sides and only one German team to pose any threat.

Is he one of the best to have played the game? Undoubtedly.

Is he the best? Anything would be speculation and judgement from anyone will be clouded by many things.

He's 24, he's won everything apart from the world cup.

He will go down as the greatest, but he has to start doing it for Argentina without Xavi and Iniesta next to him, and Busquets behind him.

Maradonna winning the W/C with Argentina and the league with Napoli are greater achievements than Messi has managed thus far imo. Messi is a key part of perhaps the greatest team ever.

Apples and oranges though innit.

I reckon NO btw.

Originally Posted by J_RED

No. Maradonna won a world cup on his own , Messi hasn't scored at the last 2 International tournaments :shakehead:

And how he transformed Napoli !

..and he did most of it on a £#%&!ing comedown.

I can't function in work the day after a proper night on the yay ffs.

Great player but not the best.

Sunday morning at Hough end in October. First tackle and he's chipped onto the Parkway.