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Unread 21-03-2023, 10:23 AM
20LEgend1999
 
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I don't think he's a shit keeper btw, and I think anybody thinking we'll automatically replace him an improvement is underestimating the risk of replacing a goalkeeper. We've seen it at United in the past and other clubs more recently. It's one thing saying De Gea needs upgrading, but it seems just as likely (if not more likely) that you end up with a Bravo, Kepa, Mendy or Karius, all of whom were highly rated when coming to the league.

I do think there was something in the fact we took the optional contract extensions on everybody but him (Fred, Dalot, Shaw and Rashford) earlier in the year, but there could be a completely different reason for that.

Either way, we'll find out by the end of the season what Erik thinks of him, but I don't think Ten Hag's ideal side (which we're still of course more than just a goalkeeper away from) includes David De Gea.
 
Unread 21-03-2023, 10:45 AM
Hyman_Roth
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 20LEgend1999
I don't think he's a shit keeper btw, and I think anybody thinking we'll automatically replace him an improvement is underestimating the risk of replacing a goalkeeper. We've seen it at United in the past and other clubs more recently. It's one thing saying De Gea needs upgrading, but it seems just as likely (if not more likely) that you end up with a Bravo, Kepa, Mendy or Karius, all of whom were highly rated when coming to the league.

I do think there was something in the fact we took the optional contract extensions on everybody but him (Fred, Dalot, Shaw and Rashford) earlier in the year, but there could be a completely different reason for that.

Either way, we'll find out by the end of the season what Erik thinks of him, but I don't think Ten Hag's ideal side (which we're still of course more than just a goalkeeper away from) includes David De Gea.
All fair comment. I agree that he probably isn’t ideal for a 10H system - his distribution has to be way better. Incidentally, I still can’t get my head around the fact that he can’t convert fairly simple passes to our midfield but then I can’t understand why Antony can’t use his right peg but that doesn’t seem to bother many.

I just feel his weaknesses are over played and the strengths of his peers overplayed. I rarely watch Liverpool but Allison, who many rate, basically got Liverpool knocked out of the champions league the other week. It wasn’t simply letting one in against reading in the carabou etc.

If he is replaceable then now’s the time to do it - he’s out of contract at the end of the season, United haven’t triggered the 1 year extension, he apparently doesn’t fit a 10h system etc.

We will genuinely see what Erik thinks between now and the end of the season. He either rates him and/or there’s no one else he can get that he rates higher. That’s been my argument.

We shall see.
 
Unread 21-03-2023, 10:46 AM
ZiggyStardust
 
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I don't understand the reluctance to replace De Gea

It's not like we're dependant on him or anything
Most of the saves he makes any top level keeper could make
Maybe a replacement keeper will make a few mistakes but it's not like De Gea doesn't have a mistake or two in him

If we sign a commanding keeper who is good with the ball at his feet then I think some on here will be shocked at the difference it will make to how we play as a team

His contract is up in the summer so it's a nice natural way to move on from him

I'd be very surprised (and a bit disappointed) if ETH sticks with De Gea this summer
 
Unread 21-03-2023, 10:49 AM
shenwen
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethers
De Gea is having a very poor season statistically, it’s not even up for debate.

There’s some great stats and tables on here. Fail to see where De Gea looks like a top keeper on any metric other than clean sheets

His goals prevented, £#%&! me

https://www.skysports.com/football/n...ng-goalkeepers
Again, so many variables in those. We really saying conceding 7 goals against Liverpool was all his fault? Or that Danny Ward is a better keeper because he's made more saves? . Seems to be doing well on the only one that really counts mind.

Can't believe I'm actually defending him though. Wouldn't be remotely arsed if we sold him. As matter of interest though would still like to see the 10 better PL keepers that we should be signing. According to the stats, one of them is Jordan Pickford
 
Unread 21-03-2023, 10:52 AM
Hyman_Roth
 
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It won’t shock me. His distribution is shite. Erik seems to have instructed them to play short passes from the back. Maybe because of their limitations.

Anyway, I’m massively looking forward to this all conquering sweeper style commanding mega goalkeeper Erik’s going to sign in the summer. Hopefully someone not into heavy metal.

Bring it on.
 
Unread 21-03-2023, 10:53 AM
jem
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZiggyStardust
I don't understand the reluctance to replace De Gea
there's no reluctance to replace any player with a better (or equal) player. all you have to do is find a player.
 
Unread 21-03-2023, 10:55 AM
shenwen
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyman_Roth
All fair comment. I agree that he probably isn’t ideal for a 10H system - his distribution has to be way better. Incidentally, I still can’t get my head around the fact that he can’t convert fairly simple passes to our midfield but then I can’t understand why Antony can’t use his right peg but that doesn’t seem to bother many.

I just feel his weaknesses are over played and the strengths of his peers overplayed. I rarely watch Liverpool but Allison, who many rate, basically got Liverpool knocked out of the champions league the other week. It wasn’t simply letting one in against reading in the carabou etc.

If he is replaceable then now’s the time to do it - he’s out of contract at the end of the season, United haven’t triggered the 1 year extension, he apparently doesn’t fit a 10h system etc.

We will genuinely see what Erik thinks between now and the end of the season. He either rates him and/or there’s no one else he can get that he rates higher. That’s been my argument.

We shall see.
Yeah, but have you seen his xGoT stats?
 
Unread 21-03-2023, 10:55 AM
Baron
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyman_Roth
All fair comment. I agree that he probably isn’t ideal for a 10H system - his distribution has to be way better. Incidentally, I still can’t get my head around the fact that he can’t convert fairly simple passes to our midfield but then I can’t understand why Antony can’t use his right peg but that doesn’t seem to bother many.

I just feel his weaknesses are over played and the strengths of his peers overplayed. I rarely watch Liverpool but Allison, who many rate, basically got Liverpool knocked out of the champions league the other week. It wasn’t simply letting one in against reading in the carabou etc.

If he is replaceable then now’s the time to do it - he’s out of contract at the end of the season, United haven’t triggered the 1 year extension, he apparently doesn’t fit a 10h system etc.

We will genuinely see what Erik thinks between now and the end of the season. He either rates him and/or there’s no one else he can get that he rates higher. That’s been my argument.

We shall see.
He isn't the perfect fit for the system, but it's a reasonable way down the list of things that need fixing - that list is a world class no.9 first & foremost, one that can stay fit & bang in 30 goals to supplement Rashford's uptick in form, and then another top class central midfielder - Eriksen has been great, but isn't a long term option & should have a very specialised role for us. If Bellingham is truly available, throw the cash at him. Then a proper right back, like a Hakimi / Reece James level one that can attack & defend properly, & only once those areas are fixed do I care about the keeper. That's another year down the line at least, no one will pay De Gea's wages & there really aren't many 'keepers out there that are an actual upgrade or a sure-fire success when they step onto the pitch. There's a lot of focus being no.1 at Utd, Dave has come through a lot to make himself a record appearance holder for us & deserves respect.
 
Unread 21-03-2023, 10:57 AM
Ethers
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shenwen
Again, so many variables in those. We really saying conceding 7 goals against Liverpool was all his fault? Or that Danny Ward is a better keeper because he's made more saves? . Seems to be doing well on the only one that really counts mind.

Can't believe I'm actually defending him though. Wouldn't be remotely arsed if we sold him. As matter of interest though would still like to see the 10 better PL keepers that we should be signing. According to the stats, one of them is Jordan Pickford
How is clean sheets the only one that really counts?
 
Unread 21-03-2023, 10:58 AM
magic_cantona
 
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If we have big funds in the summer, I can't see how he stays. He won't be a number 2 but anyone can see we need an upgrade. Fantastic shot stopper - causer of strokes when the ball is at his feet. Not good enough for us to reach the next level.
 
Unread 21-03-2023, 11:01 AM
Hyman_Roth
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron
He isn't the perfect fit for the system, but it's a reasonable way down the list of things that need fixing - that list is a world class no.9 first & foremost, one that can stay fit & bang in 30 goals to supplement Rashford's uptick in form, and then another top class central midfielder - Eriksen has been great, but isn't a long term option & should have a very specialised role for us. If Bellingham is truly available, throw the cash at him. Then a proper right back, like a Hakimi / Reece James level one that can attack & defend properly, & only once those areas are fixed do I care about the keeper. That's another year down the line at least, no one will pay De Gea's wages & there really aren't many 'keepers out there that are an actual upgrade or a sure-fire success when they step onto the pitch. There's a lot of focus being no.1 at Utd, Dave has come through a lot to make himself a record appearance holder for us & deserves respect.
All of this. De Gea is about 5th or 6th down the priority list for me. But I’d defo be looking to replace him within the next 3 years.

I suspect the club want to reduce de geas wages so won’t trigger the 1 year. His wages are ridiculous - thanks Woody.
 
Unread 21-03-2023, 12:03 PM
shenwen
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethers
How is clean sheets the only one that really counts?
It's the most important. Last time I checked they weren't given out prizes for the Golden Goals Prevented.
 
Unread 21-03-2023, 12:23 PM
ZiggyStardust
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shenwen
It's the most important. Last time I checked they weren't given out prizes for the Golden Goals Prevented.
Yeah but clean sheets are mainly to do with a team's defending as a whole
You could have a game where a keeper has to make a string of great saves to keep a clean sheet but by and large its more to do with how a team defends

You could have a shit keeper but if you keep the ball and defend really well to the point that the keeper doesn't have to make any difficult saves then how important is a keeper to a team's clean sheet

The other more modern stats are goal keeper specific
 
Unread 21-03-2023, 12:32 PM
tatty
 
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If Qatari money is available in the summer then I can’t imagine why ETH would want to keep him.
 
Unread 21-03-2023, 12:39 PM
Baron
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tatty
If Qatari money is available in the summer then I can’t imagine why ETH would want to keep him.
Regardless of how Chelsea have spent £600m in a year, it's not like you just get a blank chequebook to go all in. There are still some actual rules around FFP to abide by.

If we clear the debt & get a new sponsor, CL money etc we may be able to spend £250m or something but that gets you Osimhen & Bellingham. We'd need to sell a good few of the remaining shit@#%&!s to fund a replacement.
 
Unread 21-03-2023, 01:09 PM
Dr Stranger
 
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No Qatari £150m

Striker, midfielder
If we sell well, a right back

Qatari money £300m

2 midfielders
1 right back
2 strikers
1 keeper
 
Unread 21-03-2023, 01:26 PM
dunk
 
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We need a keeper regardless tbh.

Butland on loan and will be going back
Heaton 35/36 and out of contract (I think)
De Gea out of contract
Henderson will be sold

The others are just kids. I’d imagine if the budget is tight it’ll be the lad at Brentford, if the budget is a bit bigger, the lad at Porto, or maybe some other option we’ve never heard of because the scouts are actually earning their monies
 
Unread 21-03-2023, 01:58 PM
Ethers
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shenwen
It's the most important. Last time I checked they weren't given out prizes for the Golden Goals Prevented.
A clean sheet in a game you win 3-0 is not necessarily as important as a goal you could have prevented in a 1-1 draw.

Not saying it doesn’t have any importance though, obviously.
 
Unread 22-03-2023, 06:58 AM
redhegemony
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jem
there's no reluctance to replace any player with a better (or equal) player. all you have to do is find a player.
Exactly. Be careful what you wish for.
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