*OFFICIAL* Match Thread - Manchester United v Southampton

Originally Posted by andyroo

Four four bloody two!

Not to that extent but use to play with width and that's gone.

Wasn't there a article early on this season we've played the most long balls in the league?

Originally Posted by andyroo

All arse seeing aside, you often refer to what you think Van Gaal would want, and that's fine, you're probably right, but are you not slightly concerned that what we've got so far isn't quite what we signed up for, it hasn't looked at all like Van Gaal football (well, except Milton Keynes maybe which was classic early Van Gaal )

Dave's return to form aside maybe.

Hoofing it to the fro FFS

Disappointed, yes. Concerned, absolutely not.

I'm not even surprised, as the injuries have been majorly destructive and he's only just started building his team.

Van Gaal is not simply a manager who wants to play good football. As a certain departed sage said a while back, he's an ideologue. He's very specific about what he wants and it relies on him coaching the absolute £#%&! out of the players. He wants what they do on the pitch to come almost naturally, which is why he's continuously used the term 'automatism' and the fact that injuries have robbed him of implementing it.

The slow tempo we've seen is not what van Gaal wants. He wants players taking few touches, making quick decisions and circulating the ball at speed. But this stuff can be hard to implement without proper coaching time and, of course, when you begin with players deeply unfamiliar or uncomfortable with it, not to mention the pressure of recovering from a disastrous season.

As for Fellaini, I detest the lad. Seeing him in the shirt erodes my soul. But I don't blame LvG for involving him while he's still a United player. By all accounts he didn't want him here and tried to get rid in the summer, but it fell through. So for the moment he's a United player, and LvG is clearly better off with a confident Fellaini who is motivated to play for him. One of the many mistakes Moyes made was to alienate players while he still relied on them, and indeed while he was still trying to unite a group to believe in his ideas.

Yep all good points. I think the last one is fair actually, he's trying to get a team mentality back and that's definitely more visible than it was last season.

The point about playing automatically is what most concerns me - I'd have expected to see some progress on this front by now but it's all so laboured, really really frustrating. Actually I saw some signs of life on this front on Sunday from Di Maria, who everybody seems to have decided is irredeemably shite. He's the one lad there who can play with his eyes shut, though sadly he seems to be doing just that

Originally Posted by That Boy Ronaldo!

Not to that extent but use to play with width and that's gone.

Wasn't there a article early on this season we've played the most long balls in the league?

I'm not sure pal, but if there's is, I'm sure you of all people can find it and give yourself another chance for a good moan.

We've also played the most short passes in the league. Or if not the absolute most, we're near the top in both lists.

Weird. But then we're a weird team at the moment.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Disappointed, yes. Concerned, absolutely not.

I'm not even surprised, as the injuries have been majorly destructive and he's only just started building his team.

Van Gaal is not simply a manager who wants to play good football. As a certain departed sage said a while back, he's an ideologue. He's very specific about what he wants and it relies on him coaching the absolute £#%&! out of the players. He wants what they do on the pitch to come almost naturally, which is why he's continuously used the term 'automatism' and the fact that injuries have robbed him of implementing it.

The slow tempo we've seen is not what van Gaal wants. He wants players taking few touches, making quick decisions and circulating the ball at speed. But this stuff can be hard to implement without proper coaching time and, of course, when you begin with players deeply unfamiliar or uncomfortable with it, not to mention the pressure of recovering from a disastrous season.

As for Fellaini, I detest the lad. Seeing him in the shirt erodes my soul. But I don't blame LvG for involving him while he's still a United player. By all accounts he didn't want him here and tried to get rid in the summer, but it fell through. So for the moment he's a United player, and LvG is clearly better off with a confident Fellaini who is motivated to play for him. One of the many mistakes Moyes made was to alienate players while he still relied on them, and indeed while he was still trying to unite a group to believe in his ideas.

You could argue that's already happened with vG.

The Falcao thing is just bizarre, taking him off at Stoke and Sunday's mess. We need him scoring goals in the team.

Herrera is another who's fallen out of favour it seems, and god knows what's going on with Januzaj.

Januzaj being brought on at Stoke was very Zaha/Newcastle for me.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Disappointed, yes. Concerned, absolutely not.

I'm not even surprised, as the injuries have been majorly destructive and he's only just started building his team.

Van Gaal is not simply a manager who wants to play good football. As a certain departed sage said a while back, he's an ideologue. He's very specific about what he wants and it relies on him coaching the absolute £#%&! out of the players. He wants what they do on the pitch to come almost naturally, which is why he's continuously used the term 'automatism' and the fact that injuries have robbed him of implementing it.

The slow tempo we've seen is not what van Gaal wants. He wants players taking few touches, making quick decisions and circulating the ball at speed. But this stuff can be hard to implement without proper coaching time and, of course, when you begin with players deeply unfamiliar or uncomfortable with it, not to mention the pressure of recovering from a disastrous season.

As for Fellaini, I detest the lad. Seeing him in the shirt erodes my soul. But I don't blame LvG for involving him while he's still a United player. By all accounts he didn't want him here and tried to get rid in the summer, but it fell through. So for the moment he's a United player, and LvG is clearly better off with a confident Fellaini who is motivated to play for him. One of the many mistakes Moyes made was to alienate players while he still relied on them, and indeed while he was still trying to unite a group to believe in his ideas.

Yes. It's all very Arrigo Sacchi - having players train by not even having a £#%&!ing ball.. just imaging where the ball would go & where they should be moving on the pitch in relation to the sides evolution etc. If anyone is wondering what the £#%&! I am talking about see if you can catch the Footballs Greatest on Sky Sports about him, it's superb. Real Madrid sent someone to watch them train so they could prepare & Sacchi had his Milan side do this, the Madrid guy was baffled, reported back a total blank

It is what I was alluding to earlier though, I genuinely think the English lads are simply too ill disciplined to deal with this level of coaching. They look shit scared, they are already institutionalised by the rigours of the "up & at them (atom...)" approach of their entire careers from 8 years old etc. & one of the major reasons the defence is a massive shambles. Van Gaal will not bend, so those players will be on their way out, maybe Smalling will survive.

However if we are looking for intelligence, movement & players who can play it quickly, why is Herrera treated so badly? Why isn't Januzaj being pressed into action further up the pitch & why does he play wing back when he does get a chance?

I see all of the positives, it seems a lot of people are immune to the volumes of baffling shit he does as well.

Fellaini should just be taken out back & shot really. I can't shake the feeling that Keane would have just broken his legs to get rid of him rather than pander to him being happy etc.

Different world now I guess.

Originally Posted by andyroo

Yep all good points. I think the last one is fair actually, he's trying to get a team mentality back and that's definitely more visible than it was last season.

The point about playing automatically is what most concerns me - I'd have expected to see some progress on this front by now but it's all so laboured, really really frustrating. Actually I saw some signs of life on this front on Sunday from Di Maria, who everybody seems to have decided is irredeemably shite. He's the one lad there who can play with his eyes shut, though sadly he seems to be doing just that

Yes, it has been disappointing, although I disagree with the popular notion that the players aren't trying to win games. Too often intent is confused with success. LvG was clearly displeased at getting a draw at Tottenham; it wasn't the response of someone happy to not lose.

But again, as mentioned at the time, the attack LvG left himself with was one that lacked the dynamism to play the way he wants. When he arrived at Bayern and set about completely revolutionising their style of play, he £#%&!ed off the likes of Luca Toni, Demichelis and van Bommel, as he implemented a more dynamic, possession based style he wanted. Of course, this involved a great emphasis on wing play, with Robben and Ribery vital to his side in a traditional Dutch 4-3-3. I expect he has similar plans for United.

He made those changes over his first couple of windows. Of course, he started poorly at Bayern to the point of his job coming under threat. Only for the Bayern players to vouch for him on the basis of his coaching. Much like the AZ players had done in his previous job when he contemplated resigning. Because they could see the foundations he was laying and that improvements were being made on the training ground, if not on the pitch yet.

We know LVG would like technically proficient, mobile players. Why isn't Herrera one of our first choice starters? He can do everything Mata can and offers far more.

Originally Posted by Ranier Wolfcastle

We know LVG would like technically proficient, mobile players. Why isn't Herrera one of our first choice starters? He can do everything Mata can and offers far more.

Originally Posted by That Boy Ronaldo!

You could argue that's already happened with vG.

The Falcao thing is just bizarre, taking him off at Stoke and Sunday's mess. We need him scoring goals in the team.

Herrera is another who's fallen out of favour it seems, and god knows what's going on with Januzaj.

Januzaj being brought on at Stoke was very Zaha/Newcastle for me.

Players not playing in a game doesn't mean that they now hate the manager pal

This feels like the typical lazy fan knee jerking of calling for all the players who aren't playing. Even though most of them haven't done well when they're been in. Adnan's cameo at Stoke was horrific and Falcao was shit at Yeovil.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Players not playing in a game doesn't mean that they now hate the manager pal

This feels like the typical lazy fan knee jerking of calling for all the players who aren't playing. Even though most of them haven't done well when they're been in. Adnan's cameo at Stoke was horrific and Falcao was shit at Yeovil.

Can even understand his reluctance to play Herrera whilst Mata is in the team too. Have to ask why we £#%&!ing bought him if we knew we was another No.10 sort though and that he wouldn't be an actual midfielder.

Originally Posted by dunk

Can even understand his reluctance to play Herrera whilst Mata is in the team too. Have to ask why we £#%&!ing bought him if we knew we was another No.10 sort though and that he wouldn't be an actual midfielder.

This is the Manchester United transfer policy you are talking about. When has it ever made sense?

Re the above comment on injuries - if you go through them individually a lot *are* just "bad luck", yes. Sometimes freakishly so.